Angry Mom Shreds Common Core By Writing This On Her Son’s Test

by Gina Cassini | Top Right News

Common Core math “techniques” have utterly confused and angered both students and their parents from coast-to-coast.

One Mom was so frustrated by her son’s common core assignment that she wrote this letter on it and gave it back to the teacher. It is an instant classic!

core

Brava, Mama! This Mom of 4 knows exactly how you feel. Common Core has got to go.

 

[Source: Tickld]

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  • AJ Z

    Liberalism is a disease

    • Chuck Young

      It’s a delusional psychosis. Common liberals are stuck in the adolescence phase of life. They bully others, like a teenager bullies his/her parents to get their way. Once they do get their way, they find out they’re not prepared to handle the consequences, and they throw it back on the parent to figure out what to do to make it right. That’s why liberals get us into some of the most bitter of wars the world has ever seen.

      • CPSmurf

        Yes, George W. Bush, that flaming liberal who invaded Iraq…

        • Toxic Jarhead

          And nowhere near the deaths of WWII (Roosevelt), Korea (Truman) & Vietnam (Kennedy/Johnson). Besides, we were still at war with Iraq from Desert Storm. Learn your facts dipsh!t !!

          • CPSmurf

            Roosevelt started WWII? Gee, here I thought it was Hitler…

            Not to mention that attack by the Japanese on Pearl Harbor. I know more facts that you ever will silly jarhead…

          • Grady Roy

            Actually Mussolini made the first attacks on Ethiopia sparking the beginning phase of WWII. so it seems these “facts” you claim to know while belittling others really aren’t facts at all.

          • CPSmurf

            No, the 2nd Italo-Ethiopian War is not considered to be part of WWII. Try again.

          • Jeff Johnson

            God, you’re stupid. No wonder you vote republiCON, huh? Moron.

          • TJ Westhaver

            WWII was well underway before the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor

          • Brady Mitchell

            Jeebus, I thought errone knew Germany attacked Pearl Harbor 😉

          • CPSmurf

            Gee, really? We’re discussing how Roosevelt caused WWII. Pay attention.

          • Jane Jessee

            Unless you have ACTULLY SERVED, stop the name calling…if you know your history, then you also know that Roosevelt KNEW ahead of time that Pearl was going to attacked, but ALLOWED it to happen in order to get into the war…as always, the libs get us into these messes and someone else has to clean it up.

          • John Best

            Indeed he did.

          • Raplh Murphy

            Say wha? FDR knew Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked? Let’s review some history to see how ridiculous that statement is:
            1. Hitler “justified” invading Poland by sending out prisoners dressed as Polish soldiers to “overtake” a German radio station on their border, and then shooting them. Invasion began the next day.
            Compare that to:
            2. FDR “justified” war with Japan by HAVING THE ENTIRE US NAVY SUNK and LEAVING THE WEST COAST DEFENSELESS AGAINST THE GREATEST LAND AND NAVAL POWER IN THE PACIFIC.
            Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

          • CPSmurf

            I actually served in the Army. So can I call you butthead?

            “Roosevelt KNEW ahead of time that Pearl was going to attacked, but ALLOWED it to happen in order to get into the war…”

            Yeah. Nice theory, but there really isn’t any hard evidence of this. I’m sure you believe the WTC was brought down by our own government, too…

          • Jeff Johnson

            I served, dumbass.

            There is absolutely zero proof to substantiate your ridiculous conspiracy theory. Sorry about that. Next time you spout off, you might want to make sure that what’s coming out is factual, and not just some absurd kook theory that you’ve glommed onto from some kook wingnut blog site, hmmmm, idiot?

          • Rhgates

            Roosevelt allowed Pearl Harbor to happen. He knew of an imminent attack and hid the intelligence to gain public sentiment. We were going to have to go to war anyways, but he allowed Hundreds of Americans to die to for the sake of news headlines.

          • Rhgates
          • Jeff Johnson

            Ooooh! An extremist conspiracy theory blog site! Talk about credible “proof positive!” LOL! What an idiot!

          • CPSmurf

            “We were going to have to go to war anyways…”

            Exactly.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Nice conspiracy theory. Too bad it’s nothing but a theory, clown.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Yeah, that’s it. Never mind that there’s zero proof to back that nonsense up. Who needs proof when you’ve got kook, extremist, right wing nutjob conspiracy theories, right?

          • Deb

            jarhead was referring to the presidents of the USA who were in office during those times. Even I SAW that. Why didn’t you?

          • CPSmurf

            What was the reference, Deb? Why was he referring to them?

          • Jane Jessee

            Funny how the liberal loons want to rewrite history and love to ignore facts, Idiots, all.

          • John Best

            Reality and facts differ from their agenda to ruin America.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Actually, it’s the right wing working feverishly to destroy this country, with their obsession with reckless, borrow-and-spend policies that have driven us $17 trillion into debt and rising, and their obsession with illegal, unnecessary wars for profit, not to mention their obstructionism in blocking every attempt by dems to create jobs.

          • JJ

            You are hallucinating. Don’t worry, it’s just a side effect off the Kool aid that you are drinking. It will go away once you realize the president in office right at this very moment is the biggest joke, laughing stock of the entire world. Jobless rates are up, we went from two wars to three, thanks to this idiot. The democratic party is as loyal to the U. S as Bill is to Hillary. Let that sink in Jeff Johnson

          • Jeff Johnson

            Ah yes, of course. I guess that’s why Forbes just published that article pointing out that Obama is the most successful president in modern history, passing even Clinton and Redink Ronnie. Jobless rate is DOWN, delusional clown child. Stock market is through the ceiling, GDP is through the ceiling, deficit is less than HALF what it your precious little boy george handed off, we’re out of one illegal war and heading out of the other, Obamacare is working even better than initially predicted…by every measure, this country is doing measurably better than under the walking disaster that nearly destroyed us from 2001-2008.

            You keep right on walking around with your pretty little head buried right up your ass, though. Seems to be working really well for you so far.

            Oh, btw, Obama intends to use this year’s voter registration as a means of creating a database to gather up guns. You’d be wise to stay home on election day. Spread the word to your other gun worshipping freaks, mmmk?

          • JJ

            You are just stupid enough to believe that. Gas is up from 1.80 to over three dollars. You do realize how stupid uou sound right. It’s laughable that you think the federal gov will try and make people reg guns or take them. I guess it’s people like you brain washed global warming, homo lovers have come to expect from then that has ruined this country. I don’t have time for your petty, liberal logic. Go play golf with the man who is too big of a pussy to stand up against the people responsible for beheld ding innocent people. He’ll probably even buy you a beer.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Record gas prices were under your precious little boy. Sorry about that. The only reason it was low at the end of his miserable 8 years of catastrophic failure is because he destroyed the economy and there was no longer any demand for fuel. Dumbass.

            You’re a typical, bigoted, ignorant dumbass wingnut. Low information/no information, brainwashed cult member, unable to digest facts, and only able to exist in the right wing bubble o’delusion, with your head buried firmly up your ass. No wonder you vote republiCON.

            Here’s a thought…why don’t you do your part in saving humanity from itself by choking yourself to death on penis? You KNOW you want it.

          • JJ

            Lmao. Roflmao. You are pretty funny. Why resort to name calling? Is that all you have? I know your wife probably laughs at you everyday while she’s screwing a real man. But take it out else where. Geez.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Not married, loser. Are you still diddling with little children in the neighborhood, btw?

          • JJ

            Good one! Not quite as classy as my come back. Now Jeffy. It’s time to grow up, put your big boy pants on and move out of your parents basement. And really, you should take down all the posters of Obama and Hillary. It’s sad. You probably have one of the silver back gorilla er I’m sorry Michelle Obama hanging their too. Bu bye Jeffy!

          • CPSmurf

            You’re definitely NOT classy at all.

          • JJ

            Never claimed to be classy. See my stumbling block as a Christian is this. Oh I’m sorry. In your world we are known as extremists. Anyway. My stumbling block is democrats. They are just too stupid to see what is in front of them. You and little Jeffy have proven that today. I’ll pray on it. I’ll keep you updated. Must have hit home with Jeffy as he has no comeback. Later smurfy. I have a family home to take care of on my one day off this week. You know have to help the wifey out since info have 4 kids that all think the same way as me!! I’ll be ignoring you now.

          • CPSmurf

            As a Catholic, your behavior here is way less than Christian. Take the mote from your eye first…

          • JJ

            That explains a lot. The bible states you are not worship idols. What do you think the pope is? He claims to be Jesus on earth. Riiiiiiiiight.

          • CPSmurf

            Wait? You’re a liar, too? You said would be ignoring me.

            Take that mote form your own eye…

          • Jeff Johnson

            Fukking mindless idiot. Why is it that every single one of you pathetic, dumbass wingnut freaks is so incredibly dumb?

          • flybaby

            Either are you, but I am. I guess boys will be boys.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Nice racism, loser. I knew it would surface eventually, given the fact that the party of racists simply cannot help itself from proudly displaying their inner racist at every opportunity. Your mommy must be SOOOOO very proud to have raised a pedophile AND racist, hmmm, deadbeat?

          • JJ

            I think it’s cute Jeffy that instead of comebacks, you have created in your simple little mind that I’m a pedophile. Well Jeffy. I couldn’t work in law enforcement if that wS the case. Matter of fact I’ve been working 7 days a week with 2 days off. Some dead beat I am. What was again that you do? Oh. That’s right. Bilk from the government because your liberal arts major got you nothing. Hey. Mcdonalds is hiring. If you socialist pigs get your way you could be making $15 an hour!! Done with your wanna be comebacks. You are not with my time or energy. When you have something real to say get back to me. I just realized I have put you in your place once before. It was fun them as well. Have a nice life Jeffy.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Oh yeah, I forgot. There’s never, ever been a single instance of any authority figure anywhere ever abusing children. What the hell was I thinking? Only problem is that only an idiot would believe a word you said. My best guess says that you live with your mommy, type in her basement on her computer, steal coins from her purse while she’s passed out drunk on the couch, and stick your tiny, shriveled little pee pee into her mouth at every opportunity. Pathetic wingnut loser.

            Been fun kicking your yellow, shattered, shitty teeth down your cum-guzzling throat, dumbass! Come back when you want some more, pussy!

          • JJ

            Can you not come up with anything on your own? I already said that. You really truly are a worthless piece of crap. Are you living out your fantasy’s while typing? I don’t drink, I work for a living. You still haven’t said what you’ve done for a living. LOL. I am literally sitting here laughing out loud at how pathetic you really are. I don’t care if you believe me or not. I’m just stating what my profession. You haven’t. You get your jollies off my trying to put people down. I’m sure everyone you come into contact with laughs at you. I can’t wait for my wife to get home to read just house stupid and pathetic you really are. Then she will laugh with me. I’m back buddy. Bring it. Sorry truth is, if you saw me in person you coward away from me. My daughter could probably kick your hiney!! Typical liberal scum at it finest right here folks. He can’t think of anything to do but call names and state vulgar untruths. Sounds like the idiot in the white house. What are you like 17, 18 years old? Jeffy Johnson can’t play today. He’s trying to act like a stud!

          • CPSmurf

            What a fine model of Christianity you are…

          • JJ

            Smurfy, when you matter, I’ll let you know! For now, why don’t you go get drunk with your pope.

          • CPSmurf

            I thought you were ignoring me? A fine Christian liar you are…

          • JJ

            That was earlier, when I was busy. I’m not now. I will be later when I have to take kids to sports practice. I’ll let you know though…K?

          • CPSmurf

            Nah.

          • JJ

            On second thought…I will be done with you and Jeffy now. I’ll be the bigger man, lord knows you people can’t be. Nice talking with you and loser Jeffy Johnson. He’s a mamas boys….that’s why i call him Jeffy. He believes everything he reads.

          • Jeff Johnson

            You’re the one who puts his pee pee into mommy’s mouth, not me, loser.

          • CPSmurf

            Bye! Hopefully you listen in church this Sunday…

          • CPSmurf

            I don’t have pope. But thanks for playing 😉

          • Jeff Johnson

            I get my jollies off watching you mindless, worthless little wingnut pissants break down and start crying to mommy because I was a big meanie and called you names. Go screw yourself, crybaby. Nobody has any sympathy for a dumbass wingnut. All of we REAL Americans would prefer you lazy, do-nothing takers just pool your government handout pennies together, buy up one or two of your shitty, vermin-infested, poverty-ridden red states, and secede. We’re sick and tired of propping up your deabeat asses and listening to your endless whining, bitching, moaning, racism, bigotry, fearmongering, gun worshipping, finger-pointing, hatred, and intolerance. Just get the hell out, start your own shitty little nation of haters and morons, and get it over with. We’re sick of you.

          • JJ

            There was no racism. I state a FACT! MICHELLE OBAMA LOOKS LIKE A SILVER BACKED GORILLA. F.A.C.T.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Racist idiot. F.A.C.T.

          • Conservative Country Boy

            Still laughing Jeffy! Why do they call you Tiny anyway?

          • Jeff Johnson

            Ask your mommy if I’m tiny.

          • Conservative Country Boy

            I’m following you, just so I can be a constant nag on you.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Nope. You’re following me because you’re another one of my little bitches. I’ve willed you to follow and worship me, and you’ve dutifully answered the call, like a good little bitch. Bitch.

          • Conservative Country Boy

            for not being “aligned” with any political party, you sure do stick up for the muzzrat in chief

          • JJ

            You know Jeffy, I think I will report you. You are a nasty vulgar pathetic loser. Is that how you “think” you can get under peoples skin? I’m going to go all out and report you to disqus. You verbally abuse anyone you come into contact with. I’ll get your account banned. Don’t think I can? I will report you every day. Wittle Jeffy Johnson won’t have an open forum to slam people, because he’s not man enough to do it in person. That’s right…NOT MAN ENOUGH. You little mamas boy.

          • flybaby

            A real man doesn’t need to counter with trailer-trash talk like you just did.

          • Lyndau123

            Jus keep drinkin’… Jus keep drinkin’, jus keep drinkin’

          • DON

            …and you believe what you read…you are dumb as well

          • Jeff Johnson

            And, you don’t believe what you read. That’s a stunning admission, I must say. So, in other words, Limbaugh and Faux “news” are your Gods and nothing else is allowed to penetrate. That should get you far in life, ignorant one.

          • Wayne Breining

            How many bills are sitting on dumbass reeds desk presented to him by repubs that he wont even look at. I think you have picked the wrong job stoppers!!!!!

          • CPSmurf

            Cutting taxes doesn’t generate jobs…

          • flybaby

            For somebody that claims to be so smart, you really are stupid when it comes to economics.

          • CPSmurf

            Hardly. I minored in Economics in college.
            Demand creates jobs. Nothing else.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Wingnuts will never, ever grasp this. They have absolutely no concept of how an economy works, which is why every time they touch it, they break it.

          • Lyndau123

            I am CHOKING on the fact that you even MIGHT actually believe this! You must live in Colorado and are living on drugs in your mom’s basement! And WHY aren’t you WORKING today? Am I having to pay for your drugs and welfare and food stamps and healthcare FOR you, idiot?

          • Jeff Johnson

            Facts such as the illegal nature of your precious war against the innocent people of Iraq, you mean? Right wing Idiot.

          • JJ

            There wasn’t anything illegal with the war in Iraq. The president was given false info. Now….the mess in Iraq now? That’s another story. This idiot in the whitehouse removed the troops himself. The country then went to the crapper, and he STILL blamed the former President. The man can’t seem to take any accountability. The justice department is in Ferguson to straighten that out, but will not touch, fast and furious, Bengahzi, or any other REAL problem out there. Typical liberal, socialist pigs. Let get everyone on welfare, so the government can control everything. That’s a great idea. Maybe if people would get off their lazy butts and work, the world would be a better place.

          • CPSmurf

            Benghazi?

            :::facepalm:::

          • JJ

            What’s the matter? You don’t want answers?

          • CPSmurf
          • JJ

            That pretty laughable. It will all come out. Don’t worry.

          • CPSmurf

            What is laughable? The Republican controlled committee found nothing. How many more congressional inquiries do we need to come to the conclusion you want?

          • flybaby

            So what if a couple of letters were transposed. You’re really digging.

          • Lyndau123

            Common Core rewrites history to make Obama LORD of all nations! And they are SERIOUS, folks! THIS is the CRAP you want taught to your kids? And ratting on their neighbors and PARENTS? Sure sounds like Communism to me!

          • CPSmurf

            Seek professional mental health.

          • flybaby

            According to CPSmurf, common core is only about math and English. I guess the rumors I heard really are probably based on fact that it’s BS. There are big-time socialists and probably even some home-grown “victims of society” terrorists on these sites just lapping-up all these comments and trying to rile up trouble on so many of these forums. I’m recently retired and have the time to read through some of these. My conclusion so far is that the people that really need to read this feedback are the ones that DON’T, because 1) they can’t read, 2) protesting, 3) drugging (use/buy), 4) gang-banging, 5) trying to cross the border, 6) standing in line at the welfare office and 7) on Capitol Hill.

          • CPSmurf

            You need to seek professional mental health, too — it might help you enjoy your retirement.

            The Common Core Initiative only deals with English and math standards.
            http://www.corestandards.org/

            A little knowledge, or in your case a LOT of knowledge goes a long way.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Right, it’s libs that do that.

            How many times did Redink Ronnie raise taxes, clueless dumbass?

          • Jeff Johnson

            Oh yeah, that’s right. FDR is to blame for us being attacked by Japan and having Germany immediately declare war against us. I’d forgotten that. And, it was Truman’s fault that North Korea decided to try to take over South Korea, and besides, we should’ve just let them anyway.

            As for Vietnam, nearly half of the 58,220 American deaths occurred after Nixon committed an act of outright treason in order to secure the white house in 1968, by illegally interfering with a peace deal that the Johnson administration had brokered, prior to the election. Nixon’s people urged N. Vietnam to walk away from the deal so that he could become president and “get them a better deal.” The “better deal” led to years more war, tens of thousands more American deaths, hundreds of thousands more American injuries, and millions more Vietnamese deaths and injuries.

            As for Desert Storm, no, we were most definitely not “at war” with Iraq since 1993. In fact, war was never declared against Iraq. The 2003 invasion and occupation of that innocent, sovereign nation was entirely, 100% illegal and unnecessary, and will saddle this nation with misery and debt for generations to come. Thanks a bunch.

          • Graham B

            And all of these pale in caparison to the death toll during the US Civil War, when the USA was led by… come on even a dipshit bootneck like you will know the answer to this one

        • Jane Jessee

          Your comment doesn’t fit the discussion…IDIOT~~~

          • CPSmurf

            Neither does the comment I responded to. But I’m sure you knew that, right?

          • Jeff Johnson

            You’re the idiot, wing nut. Go choke yourself to death now, please.

        • GlockG23

          Typical… This idiot has nothing to add to the original topic, now can he win it, so he throws in something totally unrelated in order to make a disparaging remark..

          • CPSmurf

            I know! You’d think he’d actually talk about the merits or drawbacks of Common Core — like I’ve been doing.

      • GlockG23

        Wonderfully stated!

      • Jeff Johnson

        Delusional. Typical right wing loon.

        • Chuck Young

          Be careful, you’re supporting my comment by trying to bully me to shut up. If you want to prove me right, just keep up the name calling and belittling. When you have something constructive to provide a counterpoint, let me know. I’m more than willing to listen.

    • Annoyed

      I think obsession with politics is a disease.

      And before you jump to conclusions, no, I’m not a liberal, or whichever party you consider your “enemy”, because I don’t even vote, since I hate politics in general. I’m just someone that gets annoyed by people who gotta bring up politics in anything and everything and can’t seem to shut up about it.

      • Jane Jessee

        If you don’t vote: YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN

        • chris

          Actually, just because you didn’t vote, does not mean you don’t get to complain. I didn’t vote and will complain all damn day. You really think your vote matters?? Hell, both candidates were complete garbage and look America now.. negotiating with terrorists for traitors.

          • Chris Parkins

            thank you… I thought I was the only one that felt that way.

        • mastedon2

          The electoral college decides well before the votes come in… or at least,, are told what to decide..

        • Tom N

          Jane, the Bill of Rights does NOT require a person to vote in order to exercise their right to free speech. You may wish to reconsider your position.

          • Jeff Johnson

            She’s a moron. Let her continue proving that to the world, if that’s what makes her feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

        • Annoyed

          Why do I need to vote in order to have a right to complain about people bringing up something irrelevant to an article? What if someone just showed up here ranting about religion….WTF does religion have to do with common core? Same thing with politics.

          You’re bringing it up because it’s something you’re so obsessed about that you have to find some vague way to relate it to whatever it is you’re commenting on. A LOT of people do that, and I find it extremely annoying, as I purposely avoid articles that have to do with politics. So sue me if I have an opinion when people insist on talking about something I don’t like where it’s not even relevant.

          Wanna know why I don’t vote? It’s because I’m not interested enough in politics to inform myself about political issues and form an opinion, therefore I think it would be irresponsible on my part to vote, when I really have no idea what I’m voting for.

          I think it’s YOU that has no right to dictate to me what should or shouldn’t annoy me, because that’s the only thing I’m expressing an opinion about here.

    • Jeff Johnson

      No. Actually, liberalism is the cure for wingnutism, which is the disease.

  • belairjeff

    i’ve various common core math examples online but nothing related to any other study. how does common core screw up English, science, history, gym, recess, etc.?

    • Winston Smith

      You haven’t seen the examples of rewriting history?

      • Brian Beard

        LIke the Japanese were an oppressed people, and the peace loving Germans and Italians were just misunderstood? Common Core aint the only thing that has done it, the “Anarchists” that invaded Vienna in the 1500’s were actually Islamic.

      • Bryant Hill

        Belairjeff lives with his head up his a$$.

      • Frances Clark

        Not only re-writing history, but common core suggests books for the students to read that are pornographic!!! Our junior high students in one Arizona community were assigned a book to read out loud in class that was horrible!! One student went home and told his mom what the book was about, his mom did not believe it so she went to class and got the book!!! The school board was upset when she began to read it out loud in a public meeting, they did not want it in their minutes of the meeting. They took that book out right away.

        • Faylene Marie Gostanian-Whalin

          Francis, what book was it?

        • Falon Benham

          Fifty Shades of Grey pornographic, or Shakespeare pornographic? I don’t think I care either way if my kids are reading that in school, to be completely honest.

      • belairjeff

        nothing but math examples. share a link, winston…

    • Antigreen2008

      In History, did you know that the Boston Tea Party were terrorists?? Now they are with Communist Core.

      • Falon Benham

        Realistically speaking, yes they were. The definition of terrorism is the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

        • Antigreen2008

          And that definition would be from the common core curriculum, that’s why you and the communist agenda need to be eradicated from this Country.

    • Bryant Hill

      Just look at your grammar in your post. That’s how Common Core has scewed up English you moron.

      • Pamela Johnson

        grammatically speaking, you needed a comma after English, setting off the you moron phrase…but then I should have capitalized and used quotes to set off English…oh, never mind.

        • Troubled Maker

          Let’s eat Grandma! vs. Let’s eat, Grandma!
          …Grammar… Saves lives 😀

          • Pamela Johnson

            LOL!!!!!!!

      • Carl Tim

        Relax, douche!

    • Jenni

      Under common core standards, kids are taught to a test. They don’t learn reasoning, or critical thinking, they are not encouraged to form an opinion, this screws up all parts of the educational system by creating robots with no ability to think freely. The math examples are simply the easiest to see.

      • Hater Hatington

        Wouldn’t this question be an example of that? Find the obvious error, then explain what’s wrong and how to fix it. Reasoning and critical thinking.

    • WaRottie

      OMG! MY kid had a teacher in first and second grade that was constantly telling her to just guess and go when she was missing words. Instead of sounding out the words and getting it right and really KNOWING what she was reading (COMPREHNSION) she encouraged her to guess and go all the time. It developed into a really bad habit and her reading suffered terribly for it. I don’t know if this would really qualify as a Common Core disaster or just a bad teaching method but it was sure a bad way to teach a kid to read if you ask me. I fought it hard and it was not easy. I am still trying to deprogram her from that way of thinking. She still fights the urge to just skip words and move on and I have to explain to her why she doesn’t understand half of what she reads. It is really frustrating.

  • Treyce Montoya MPsyD

    Did
    you see my blog post from quite a few months ago about the Common Core?
    it’s called “Handwriting is More Than Just Pen & Paper” at http://asktreyce.wordpress.com

  • Linda Ziniel

    Great job mom !!!

  • Bryant Hill

    I’m more interested in knowing who thought this Common Core BS up.

    I’d take that SOB to the woodshed.

    • Barbara Kingston

      Bill Gates

      • hexxuss

        And some other guy – neither one has a kid who goes to public school or even USES it!!

        • Wraith Ideal

          Exactly, this is only for “commoners” … the peasants. Gates is on record as saying this will help in creating a new workforce for their companies. It’s all about creating no-thinking drones.

          • Lyndau123

            That is why he will have to use ROBOTS!

      • Ziva (Candace) McCabe

        That pretty much sums it up!

    • Ziva (Candace) McCabe

      AMEN!!

    • Kathleen McKenna Lawler

      Many more will quit school.

      • Troubled Maker

        Well, well well, I can say, I would get up, and walk right out of that class room had that been handed to me. and I am agreeing with you, many more will quit school.

        • Falon Benham

          Perhaps common core was in fact put in to place to weed out all of the undesirable kids who were holding their grade back anyhow? That would certainly abolish the need for the “No Child Left Behind” acts. If all the dumb kids drop out then the smart ones will go on to higher education and will be representing the United States, not the idiots who are plastered to their phones and wear pajamas to job interviews.

          • Rhgates

            Sadly it won’t be the smart ones who stay in school because they understand the common core “methods”

          • Donald Dow

            People with degrees in math rightfully earned don’t understand these methods.. Hell Asians don’t even understand this math.. and that’s saying something.

          • CPSmurf

            It’s sad that you don’t understand a simple number line.

          • Rebecca Balent

            It’s sad that you can’t subtract 316 from 427 without using a number line. The extra steps serve no purpose

          • CPSmurf

            I can subtract 316 from 327 using an abacus, a number line, a pencil and paper, a calculator and visually in my head.

            The purpose it serves is the ability to solve problems in more than one manner — a skill that you obvious do not possess.

          • flybaby

            Good for you Mr. Wizard. Who cares if you’re showing off.

          • CPSmurf

            The clients who pay me $150 an hour to do their accounting and tax…

          • flybaby

            And I was making $700/day flying a tanker dropping retardant on fires. Top that. I’m not impressed.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Uh…hate to break this to you, genius, but at $150/hour, CP makes almost twice as much as you. Ooopsies. Guess they don’t teach you flame retards much math, huh?

          • flybaby

            That’s for whether I fly or NOT. I’d like to see you even fly a kite. Obviously he doesn’t work all day because he’s busy on this thing.

          • Jeff Johnson

            That’s not what you said initially. Are you lying now, or were you then?

            And, he still makes almost twice what you do, genius. I fly kites quite well, thank you very much. Not sure what that really matters, however, but whatever. Apparently, you have a rather weak view of yourself.

          • flybaby

            I don’t know what you’re talking about “initially”… Speaking of retards, you both are. Answer me…….

          • Jeff Johnson

            You initially said that you made “$700 per day dropping flame retardant on fires.” Then, you changed that to say that you made this whether you flew or not. So, which is the lie? Didn’t mean to get you all confused with such a difficult question and all…

          • flybaby

            It’s $700/day whether I fly or NOT. Obviously you are stupid about air attack fire fighting. We wait from about 7 a.m. until 30 min before sunset for a lightning strike or some AH arsonist, We are THERE, stupid, just like your local fire department. So hard to figure out now? Your friend CP doesn’t work all day or he wouldn’t be on this site blabbing. What do you do for a living – or do you? You’d probably lie anyway.

          • Jeff Johnson

            So, you were lying initially then. Got it. Was that really so difficult now?

          • flybaby

            God, you’re stupid. Haven’t you ever seen a fire station at an airport? You know, that place where airplanes come and go? Aerial fire fighters have a six day work week and they are inside with the ground crews in some areas. You must live in a cave in New Jersey or something. You are much too stupid to educate and a total waste of time. Shut up and go away.

          • Jeff Johnson

            I really don’t give a rat’s ass. I was only pointing out that you had made contradictory statements about your glorious flame retard days. Go cry now.

          • JJ

            Now you see where I came from with him. He’s an idiot flybaby. Just ignore him. He won’t even say what he does, other than live in his parents basement.

          • flybaby

            You’re right. I’m only at my computer anyway because I’m working on something else. They’re both IDIOTS. I retired NOT to do this.

          • CPSmurf

            $150 x 8 = $1,200 a day. $1,200 – $700 = $500 more than you.

            Consider yourself topped…

          • flybaby

            YOU don’t work 8 hours a day. YOU don’t get per diem and I get paid whether I fly or NOT. Oh, and I don’t get paid under the table. Consider yourself topped……

          • CPSmurf

            You’re right. I work more like 10 a day, so $150 x 10 = $1,500. I work in an office in my home. During filing deadlines, I work up to 14 hours a day which is $150 x 14 = $2,100.Being a tax accountant, I know all the deductions and loopholes for deducting my office and the trips I take to places like Florida, New York, California. I also I have employees who I bill out at similar rates. And I report all my income — I wouldn’t want to upset the IRS…

          • Lyndau123

            WHAT A CROCK of BS! Narcissistic IDIOT!

          • CPSmurf

            As an idiot, I’m paid very well…

          • Amy tivey

            An accountant does not work 8 hours per day? During certain times of the year, they work more. This is your argument. Engineers, system analysts, info tech all earn more than you, have the potential to earn more than you and use math more than you. You need to think outside the box.

          • flybaby

            You are right, and I do, and they absolutely earn a lot more and deserve it when it comes right down to it. I made squat next to these people, but really, accounting to me was boring and that narcissist Smurf guy just had to be “right” or die about everything. I felt argumentative yesterday, which was really political, defending my own profession, somewhat dangerous but fulfilling. Now I do accounting part time – still boring – and the computer does most of the work anyway, plus I had something to do after retirement.

          • Amy tivey

            And where I live, we need guys like you. My friends think I am crazy for doing taxes, but they need me too.

          • flybaby

            ABSOLUTELY! Who else would they go to? Most laypersons don’t know anything about it and when they do it themselves, they can lose a lot of money. Incidentally, I’m a woman.

          • Amy tivey

            That was a terrible assumption on my part. One should never assume. My bad!! I have been pondering how I have to think creatively and out of the. Box in my own job to save people money. Tax advice for one individual does not necessarily work for another. Math is not cut and dry like most people think. This is also why I think many businesses fail. People have brilliant ideas, but they can’t figure out the financial side. I see it all the time.

          • flybaby

            No problem. Not too many women in this profession. You’re right about failing businesses. I wish it was easier for average people to start their own business in the first place. The capital needed to start a business is hard to get, even with “small business loans”, and employee taxes being what they are. Everything always boils down to money, doesn’t it?Problem is, most people don’t have enough just to keep up.

          • Amy tivey

            True.

          • CPSmurf

            No, you directly challenged my ability to solve the same math problem in multiple ways — just like a few others did. My practice is based on solving problems — and that’s why I’m successful. You may find accounting boring, but that doesn’t mean that I find it boring. It’s this example, too, that points to the merits of common core.

            Not all people learn the same way — just like not all people can find accounting and tax exciting. It’s why Common Core encourages multiple methods to meet the standard. It also mandates the long subtraction method.

          • Lyndau123

            WHAT A CROCK OF BS!

          • CPSmurf

            I know! I could be charging $200 an hour.

          • dms0926

            but they are not teaching the simple and most useful way. They aren’t teaching any OTHER way but this common core way. Why make it confusing and frustrating instead of just 1+1=2?

          • CPSmurf

            Baloney. Which school district to believe this to be the case? It’s readily available.

          • Phil

            It’s only simple or useful if you understand WHY it works. You probably don’t remember learning about base 10 waaaay back in gradeschool, but it is essential in learning mathematics. It’s not just about filling in numbers in the algorithms. Where those numbers are, why we read them from left to right, why we “borrow” and “carry” all involve understanding how our number system works. yes, 1+1+2 (maybe, depending on your number system) but WHY is just as important. Oh, and the reason most people “hate word problems” is that they were never taught number sense, how to apply knowledge in different setting, not just filling in blanks. Word problems show that you can apply the knowledge you have gained. Doing “math problems” doesn’t have any real world application. A word problem totally can, and often does.

          • Lyndau123

            What a CROCK. Who the HELL needs base ten when you can already DO this in your head? You MUST be one of those Liberturd educators! Keep the Kool-aid Comin’, Marge! Never WORKED a day in your life have you? I have worked in business for 35 years and Common Core is nothing but CRAPOLA! No real business person GIVES a crap HOW you do the math so long as it is CORRECT and done efficiently (FAST!)

          • Amy tivey

            It is obvious that math probably came easy to you so you don’t understand why a student would be taught using a number line. I know many adults today that gave up on math early on. Had they been taught a different method, maybe they would not have given up as easily. If you were employed in a math based field, the sciences, technology, you might understand hat. Business uses basic math. To be innovative, you need to understand the bigger picture, not just add and fast.

          • jackj59

            From what I’ve seen in my son’s classes, they teach many ways, including the simplest way; this is simply a post of ONE of the ways. Why assume it’s the only way they teach?

          • Phil

            Exactly! Someone else must be a teacher. Or at least remember learning about number before being introduced to “math problems”. (algorithms)

          • TxChristopher

            Seeking out less efficient ways to solve a problem is just plain stupid. I could go find and count out 427 rocks and then count off 316 of them then count the remainder and arrive at the answer and proclaim that I have come up with another way to solve the problem . .. .. .. but in the real world all I did was waste tremendous time and effort trying to arrive at the same answer by making things unnecessarily complex and difficult.

          • CPSmurf

            In the real world, you don’t always know the most efficient to solve a problem.

          • TxChristopher

            In the real world anyone with any common sense can see that common core math is one of if not the most inefficient way to solve very simple math problems.

          • CPSmurf

            Au contraire, I have a great deal of common sense. There is no such thing as “common core math” since there are various methods that are taught to meet the standard.

            Again, the problem with dolts like yourself is that you are incapable of coming up with different ways to solve problems. Instead of telling our children this is the most efficient way of doing something, we should give them the tools for them to figure that out for themselves.

            The parent in the example — knowing the most “efficient way” to solve the problem couldn’t even figure out why the answer in the problem was wrong. What does that say about the most “efficient way”?

          • TxChristopher

            The problem with pricks like you is you cannot see the trees for the forest. I am smart enough to NOT come up with a more difficult way of solving a very simple problem. By showing your child the simple and very effective simple subtraction method you enable them to figure it out for themselves quickly and efficiently. The more unnecessary steps you add to get to the solution the more chances of error creeping into the problem.

            Nothing that is said will get an incompetent tool like you to see the futility in intentionally doing things the hard way. Some people are gluttons for punishment, apparently you belong in that crowd.

          • CPSmurf

            “The parent was intelligent enough to understand that the entire method is ridiculous.”

            But yet UNABLE to solve the problem.

            “Common Core suggests forgetting what works and going with what is difficult.”

            No. The standard method is still required to be taught. If you were actually as smart as you claim, you’d know.

            “The problem with pricks like you…”

            Is dealing with pricks like yourself.

            “I am smart enough to NOT come up with a more difficult way of solving a very simple problem.”

            What a selfish prick you are. It’s not about whether you are “smart” enough but about whether others have the ability to learn only one way. Most don’t. We show students one way and then they drop out if they can’t do it. I’d much rather have MORE people learning math and science than LESS people.

            “The more unnecessary steps you add to get to the solution the more chances of error creeping into the problem.”

            It’s a damned number line — there isn’t any creep.

            “The method itself is so bogged down that it is not usable and there are much better methods available.”

            Again, you miss the point of the exercise. It’s not to find the answer but to find the error in the method. How can a child learn for themselves that a method is not for them unless they see the drawbacks in it? Besides, not all children can learn the standard method, so this method might be a better option for them.

            “By showing your child the simple and very effective simple subtraction
            method you enable them to figure it out for themselves quickly and
            efficiently.”

            Again, the standard method of subtraction is still being taught and is mandated by Common Core, so by showing other methods, the child is able to also figure out the most efficient method that works for them. The standard is designed to teach MORE methods to students in order to get MORE students to the next level and ultimately to do better in college and in some cases, create the opportunity to attend college.

            “Nothing that is said will get an incompetent tool like you to see the futility in intentionally doing things the hard way.”

            Screw you too…

          • TxChristopher

            May you enjoy as difficult of a life as you go out of your way to create.

          • CPSmurf

            Prick.

          • CPSmurf

            My life is fairly simple — mostly due to the fact that I know how to solve problems in multiples ways.

          • TxChristopher

            Odds are more likely that your life is simple because you are a simpleton.

          • CPSmurf

            What would you know about calculating odds? You don’t even know the difference between a complex number line and a simple number line!

          • TxChristopher

            The odds are 1 out of 1 that you are a simpleton.

            Take your number and wait in line, I am sure you are used to that at the welfare office.

          • CPSmurf

            Yeah, you definitely don’t know how to calculate odds.

          • TxChristopher

            The mistake was that Jack used a complex number line to solve a very simplistic subtraction problem. That was the mistake. The parent did solve the problem, the problem was what is 427-316 and the parent demonstrated most effectively how to arrive at the solution to the problem with the answer of 111.

          • CPSmurf

            Prick…

          • CPSmurf

            Complex number line?!?

            Not only are you a prick, but you have no idea what a complex number line is. It’s a simple number line.

          • Amy tivey

            You are missing the point. Common core is teaching different methods. Ultimately. As you get older, you would probably revert to the most efficient way. My kids when younger have always been taught different methods to solve problems. For our district, common core is just a name for what they already do. Our district is also one of the best in the state

          • CPSmurf

            I’m sure you have great, well educated kids, too! These people who misunderstand Common Core really scare me…

          • Guest

            You hit it, real simple math problems. Teachers are trying to teach their kids to think so when the problem is not so simply they have the skills to figure it out. Common core is not a curriculum, it is a way of thinking

          • TxChristopher

            It is a broken way of thinking. Normal subtraction provides for solving the most difficult subtraction problem quickly and easily. I would love to see how much time and paper Common Core would require to solve subtraction of very large numbers. The sheer amount of steps it requires almost assures a mistake will be made along the way, terminating in an incorrect answer. That is if the person trying to solve the problem does not grow old spending so much time on it along the way. By the time you solve it you probably can’t even recall what it is you needed to calculate for anyway.

          • CPSmurf

            “I would love to see how much time and paper Common Core would require to solve subtraction of very large numbers”

            Again, Common Core is a standard.

            Since long subtraction is a method that is mandated by the Common Cord standard, I’m not exactly sure what your beef is with it.

          • Amy tivey

            Life is not about simple math problems. Teachers are teaching a way of thinking so when the problem is not so simple, the kids will be able to figure it out. Common Core is not a curriculum, it is a way of thinking.

          • DON

            why use the word common and core if it is not a mandated curriculum? you just contradicted your point.

          • Amy tivey

            Common core means that you are teaching the same concepts in the same grade from state to state. It does not mean they are using the same books, the same lectures, the same problems. That is up to the district and the teacher. If the system deems you should know your multiplication tables by second grade, then that is the concept. How a teacher teaches that will use multiple methods so all kids will understand. It is unfortunate that when kids move from less progressive states to our district, they are already behind in math. Common core would solve that issue. Math does not stay simple and if you don’t learn multiple ways of solving a math problem you will get frustrated. The simple math problem does not stay so simple when you get to calculus.

          • DON

            yo just said it its up for the district and the teacher. In case you are not aware they have been doing the same concept. I guess it was just renamed .why reinvent the wheel? Your claim that less progressive states are behind in math is totally an assumption. check your facts. Learning math will always start as it has always been from the inception of civilization. Simplify the complex not the other way around. Yes we understand some people are less inclined and slower in learning math..because we are human, therefore you introduce other methodology to those that needed it without slowing down those who get it.

          • Guest

            Good math teachers are already doing this. When the government got involved and gave it a name, then people got bent out of shape. I may question why my kids teachers are teaching a certain method, but then I realize that not all kids think the same way. What is easy for me, is difficult for others.

          • Karen Richmond Brzezicki

            That argument makes sense. To force ALL students to learn this crazy, complicated method if they understand the direct approach (and excell) is what is being argued. At least by me.

          • DON

            i know..and i cant afford to waste my time using this crap!

          • CPSmurf

            What’s crap to you, is someone else’s gold.

          • DON

            so be it.

          • Amy tivey

            I agree. There are many ways to figure out a problem. Life is not black and white. A method that one child uses can be different from another child. The obvious way for an adult may not make sense for a child until later. Maybe those adults who feel deficient in math now wouldn’t had they been taught different methods as children.

          • DON

            those you mentioned are not “skill”, they are manners as you said. We use the simplest to understand and apply in REAL world. Some of them manners are a waste of time..which practical people are trying to avoid.

          • Phil

            Actually, the extra steps DO serve a purpose. It’s about understanding place value and the base 10 number system. Yes, you strive for efficiency, but using a number line and other non “traditional” algorithms allow for greater understanding. Anyone can plug numbers into and algorithm and get an answer. BUT, unless you know your number system, you have no idea if the answer is right or why. That’s why students are encouraged to show their work. Then, you can see how they are thinking about number, math, processes, etc… and guide instruction from there. Do you solve every problem with a number line? Or course not, but it does give the instructor tons of information on how to proceed when teaching students.

          • Lyndau123

            Tell that to a BOSS who wants his work done FAST and EFFICIENTLY! THEY do NOT give a RATS’ patoodee what your little mind was doing. They want the answer, they want it NOW, not an HOUR from now! You MUST be an idiot “edumacator” as you have NO idea what REAL world is!

          • Thomas Minshall

            You realize that if Students are given a test with 20 math questions that this common core the class is only say 60 minutes and say it take the say half of the students 5 minutes to solve each question that works out to 100 minutes to solve 20 questions now how is that efficient. As it has been said before most employers want the answer not how you got that answer. I’m old school where we learn math as Add.Subtract,Multiply,Divide if the teacher ask what is 125+150=275 that’s was the answer they didn’t care how we got to that. Why turn something that may take 5 to say 30 seconds depending on the equation into something that now takes 5 minutes or more to solve just to teach them that they need to write out and explain how they got the answer. I can’t imagine what a nightmare it would be if you start using fractions in the equations.

          • Phil

            You’re completely missing the point. This is ONE of many ways to teach subtraction, and it HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CORE CURRICULUM. No, it is not efficient. It’s not supposed to be. It provides understanding of the number system. When students understand the number system, then doing a simple “traditional” algorithm is an efficient way for them to later solve a mathematical problem. You had to learn your vowel and consonant sounds before you could read efficiently. You started out with picture books, and books with strong text/picture connections, you eventually learned to comprehend what was happening in the story, not just reading words. This is no different, just another way to promote understanding. I guarantee if you gave this number line to a student who has learned this ONE (of many ways) way of solving a problem, they could totally do it, get the right answer, and TELL YOU WHY it is the right answer. All the borrowing, and carrying in a “traditional” algorithm make perfect sense when you have number sense, and how/why base 10 works. Actually fractions aren’t so hard, if you have a strong number sense. We only think fractions are hard because the way they were taught to us. I didn’t know until college that decimals were also called decimal fractions. My mind was blown, and I had a much better understanding of fractions and decimals once that connection was made. Once again, let it go that this is a core curriculum problem. It’s not. Period. It’s just one of many ways to do subtraction or addition, promotes understanding, and problem solving skills. Anyone can do a traditional algorithm, but if you don’t understand why they work and how to know if the answer is correct or plausible, you end up with a population that can’t even fathom what a multi Trillion dollar debt looks like, or how interest rates work, or you know, math. But hey, you can sure do those algorithms quickly. OH, and just to be clear, I am NOT a proponent of core curriculum. My argument is core curriculum and this number line problem are not the same thing.

          • Amy tivey

            Innovation requires out of the box thinking, not just that 1+1=2. Depends on the job. Teachers want to see how you came up with the answer not just robotic methods of getting the answer. Robots won’t solve life problems.

          • flybaby

            I should have read this comment before I answered yours. Maybe common core IS BS.

          • Lyndau123

            Trust me. It IS Communism indoctrination. Do some RESEARCH about what it REALLY is. It is NOT about the way you do a math problem it is FAR more EVIL than that. PLEASE READ UP!

          • Karen Richmond Brzezicki

            I understand it, but find it much more complicated than necessary to do simple subtraction.

          • CPSmurf

            I understand simple subtraction, too, but it’s much more complicated than using a calculator.

          • Allyson Newton

            I don’t have a degree in math, and I understand this perfectly. The child was supposed to identify the error in the problem and correct it. Didn’t you have to do that in your math classes?

          • Lyndau123

            So you MISSED the point of this conversation all together! Go back to your parent’s basement, little girl!

          • Allyson Newton

            How did I miss the point? I’m just saying that I don’t need a degree in math to understand this problem…?

          • Allyson Newton

            I would ask that you please not attack my character. I’m trying to have a discussion. If you feel that I am wrong, you can express that in a respectful manner.

          • DON

            i respectfully answer that you are WRONG Allyson.why are you insisting this crap works?

          • Allyson Newton

            Kids are learning the same things that they have been learning before. Yes, they are being taught in different ways, but those ways are designed to be easier to understand. The reason why it’s hard for people who learned traditional methods to understand the method is that we were all taught using those other methods. Kids who have no knowledge of mathematics in the first place (because they haven’t been taught anything yet) will not know a difference.
            Also, CC gives the schools freedom to collect data on their kids to better personalize the approach to education. They collect data on SES, gender, age, marital status of parents, etc. in order to know best how to educate the population at that particular school. As a Sociology and Psychology student,I know that research is everything. You need research to make progress in any facet of society. CC is more than just new math techniques. It is an attempt to further understand the student as an individual, so that the school can better serve them.

            Why are you so convinced that it can’t work?

          • Karen Richmond Brzezicki

            As a Social Work major with a minor in psychology, years of work experience and a arent, I am not understanding why some of that data that is mined helps research and structure a curriculum. Not all children of single parent families learn the same way (just as an example). My sociology professor would be appalled at that assumption.

          • DON

            use that method in the inner cities, since they have a lot of parents that are not helping their kids

          • DON

            because it has been tried. and educated parents (in math) like the one on the article as an EVIDENCE, disagrees. I passed all my basic math up to the higher mathematics i.e.Integral/analytic calculus, college algebra, spherical geometry, solid mensuration, trigonometry etc….the foundation of learning basic math is as old as man started how to count..it never change. It is to simplify the complex..not to complicate the simple!

          • Amy tivey

            Why are you so insulting?

          • Karen Richmond Brzezicki

            No

          • DON

            no Allyson the teacher who gives the test identify the error and correct it. This is HOW WE LEARN..from our mistakes.

          • gingerpal

            I doubt it. Smart kids will go on to further education in any case. But the challenged kids will not fare too well. Not sure what tells us.

          • Troubled Maker

            Perhaps the only reason you commented on my comment was to get your comment closer to the top rather than to fall to the bottom where no one will read it. And you’re just jealous that my pajama bottoms are way cooler than yours, and that I got the job over you anyways, because, although I am not book smart, I’m real life smart. The kids I know who are book smart are the biggest idiots I know, because they have no common sense.

        • gingerpal

          And go to private schools.

      • HarryTheCat

        Maybe that’s the real agenda. More dropouts = more government dependents = more Dem voters.

        • John Best

          I fear you are correct.

          • Sam

            But they still need to know how to fill in those ballots at the voting stations. Unless of course they have someone helping them……

          • flybaby

            CPSmurf would probably volunteer.

          • tulet

            @Sam, They don’t need to know how, they already have 2 votes per person in the box.

          • Neil08

            Like in Florida?

          • opweghbe1
        • Jeff Johnson

          More accurately, more dropouts = more prison “customers” for right wing private prisons and more shrapnel fodder for future republican wars of aggression. .

          • DLinz

            Just put DOWN that glue bottle Jeff. It’s rotting what’s left of your pathetic lib brain. You are welcome.

          • Joshua Meade

            its the liberal left pushing this. what he said made my nose bleed.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Oh yeah, you’re right. Repubs haven’t built a private, for-profit prison industrial complex that thrives on society’s lack of education. And, we all know that republicans NEVER, EVER launch illegal wars merely for corporate profit. What the hell was I thinking in suggesting those things?

          • dms0926

            NOTHING to do with this common core crap, Jeff. NOT. ONE. THING

          • Wes Hall

            The two political parties mentioned in the Bible are ” ‘Publicans and Sinners.”

          • TxChristopher

            Please tell us which war the Republicans launched that was not legally voted for by Congress.

          • Jeff Johnson

            The Congressional Resolution on Iraq did NOT authorize the use of military force without condition. It was predicated on the War Powers Act of 1973 (which, by my interpretation, is unconstitutional itself), which very specifically requires that in order to be granted permission for the use of military force, the POTUS must prove one of two scenarios. He must either prove that we’ve been directly attacked by target nation, or are under immediate threat to be attacked if action is not taken to prevent it.

            The Bush/Cheney white house failed to prove either, although they did try feverishly, by pumping out one gigantic lie after another, first to try to make people believe that Iraq caused 9/11, and then to make people believe that Iraq posed an immediate threat to attack. That’s what all the talk about drones, mushroom clouds, centrifuges, yellowcake uranium, etc. was all about. They were shoveling as many lies as they could down our throats, in order to lead us to believe that Iraq posed a serious, immediate threat, which they simply did not. There was no intelligence source on the planet, including ours, that saw Iraq as an immediate threat to anyone, least of all the US.

            Aside from the fact that they had no lawful authorization from congress, they also had no lawful authorization from the UN, and, because we are a charter member, and the charter very clearly states that no member shall even threaten the use of military force without full authorization from the security council. They failed to obtain that authorization, therefore the war was a violation of international law, and by extension, also a violation of US constitutional law.

            It was illegal.

          • TxChristopher

            It was not illegal. You wanting it to be does not make it so. The resolution authorized President Bush to use the armed forces as he determined to be necessary and appropriate in order to defend the security of the USA against the continuing threat posed by Iraq, and enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq. Congress voted on and passed the legislation, which means it is law and is therefore legal.

            Further, the invasion of Iraq was challenged in US federal courts and it was determined to be legal.

            “In early 2003, the Iraq Resolution was challenged in court to stop the invasion from happening. The plaintiffs argued that the President does not have the authority to declare war. The final decision came from a three-judge panel from the US Court of Appeals for the First Circuit which dismissed the case. Judge Lynch wrote in the opinion that the Judiciary cannot intervene unless there is a fully developed conflict between the President and Congress or if Congress gave the President “absolute discretion” to declare war”

          • Jeff Johnson

            You clearly haven’t read the War Powers Act of 1973, nor the Congressional Resolution on Iraq. I would recommend you do so, before approaching someone who has and pretending that you’re the expert. Rest assured, your astounding ignorance proves otherwise.

            There was NO threat posed by Iraq at the time of the illegal invasion. Period. NO intelligence sources considered them a threat. Your boy LIED in saying that they were, but the intelligence said otherwise. Sorry. You don’t get to make up your own set of facts.

            Beyond the FACT that the administration failed MISERABLY in their duty to prove that we’d either been directly attacked by, or was in immediate threat of being attacked by Iraq, the UN did NOT authorize the invasion and occupation, therefore, by the US constitution and by international law, it was ILLEGAL.

            You can pretend all you want that facts aren’t facts, but they remain facts nonetheless, and they do NOT equate to your personal OPINIONS, which are NOT facts, in this instance. The war was entirely ILLEGAL and unnecessary.

            Oh, and they also committed war crimes by TORTURING people. They dragged this nation to the level of nazi Germany, for the sole purpose of profiteering.

          • TacticalYoda

            Congrats! You have been nominated and received the Dooshbag of the year award! I know your liberal messiah (you know, the one who refused to wear the American flag on his chest in 2007) is VERY proud of you comparing the US to Nazi Germany. I suggest you visit Dachau and feel the anguish and pain that STILL lingers in the air. You are going to find, in the very near future what those “poor souls” who were tortured will do – not because of anything America has done BUT because their savage death cult, following the example of a child violating maniac-tells them to.

            I can only hope they START with people like you. because YOU, not America make their reign of terror possible.

          • Conservative Country Boy

            Blah blah blah…Believe what what you have been told by your muzzrat

          • Jeff Johnson

            See, this is why you dumbasses vote republican. You know nothing and you simply do not care. You walk around in life with your heads buried right up your asses, ignoring all facts that don’t exist within your little right wing media bubble of delusion/misinformation, and pretend that you’ve got it all figured out. Idiots.

          • DON

            yeah keep claiming you know everything..or otherwise keep it to yourself.

          • Conservative Country Boy

            You keep saying the same things, over and over, and over, and over, and over. Nobody likes you on disqus. Nobody likes you in person. Give up already. You are a muzzrat lover, though you claim to have no political affiliation. Your “community organizer” has done NOTHING to help this country. NOTHING. And you pigs follow him around lapping up everything he has to say. Watch him tonight spew lies. ISIS is JV. lol. He got that one wrong. Lets see. Still have a marine in Mexico, yet we traded 5 truly deplorable people for ONE anti american deserter, uuummmmm…..Made a speech about a beheading, then went back to golfing, with no care in the world. Pulled out of Iraq, blames it on Bush. Everything is blamed on Bush, yet he hasn’t been president for 5 years. You voted for a terrorist, you got him!!

          • Miguel

            Mr. Johnson, I am a free thinker, and I am not very gullible, but it seems that you are just as bad as the people that are saying that the BUSH administration was justified in their actions in the middle east . Just because you get all of your facts from info that was released from news outlets, and you interpret it to compliment your opinion. I am not faulting you for that, everyone does it, both Dem and Rep. But there is a lot of info that is still sealed, this info, if released, would give both sides info to compliment their argument. I hate to say it, but “We the people” are just fed enough info to keep us at bay, long enough to have you think for a moment between our bravo network shows. No one thinks for themselves any longer, I don’t believe in black helicopters and tin foil hats, but there are things that any administration is going to keep from their people, just to keep egg off of their face or to protect national security, what good would it do to inform the masses, 80 percent of the population can not even explain the three branches of government, or how they operate.

          • DON

            “There was NO threat”?…..That means all the members of the congress who approved the authorization are that dumb? that is your direction. Hey it was approved otherwise the next session of the congress after that would have been to repeal the authorization.

          • Jeff Johnson

            It means that we were all lied to, including congress. Remember when Rumsfeld announced that he was going to create his own intelligence agency within the Pentagon? That was to insure that the information that got released was favorable to the wicked agenda. Just as was reported in Britain, the white house was fixing intelligence around their plans to attack.

            What would be the benefit of repealing the authorization, after the invasion and occupation was already under way? I don’t follow the alleged logic to that statement.

            Iraq was not seen as a threat to ANYONE at the time of our illegal invasion, including its own neighbors, let alone the US. They were NOT a threat. We had decimated their military and the entire nation was reeling from years of brutal UN sanctions.

          • DON

            the congress APPROVED, whether you deemed we are tricked or not, it does make it LEGAL. If you dont like the congress then vote them out.

          • Jeff Johnson

            You have trouble reading, don’t you? I never said that the congressional resolution did not pass. I said that it did NOT constitute lawful authorization for the illegal war. The resolution also did not provide UN approval, which was also required and not obtained. Pick your reason for it being illegal…either because the conditions of the congressional resolution were never met or because the UN did not provide approval. Either way, it was unlawful, and just because you don’t know how to read doesn’t make it a legal war. Sorry. You can bury your head up your ass all you want and pretend that your farts are magical fairy dust, but it won’t make it so.

            As for congress, yes, I alone have the power to vote the congress that I want into power. My one vote per candidate is all it takes for me to get the precise congress that I want.

            You’re not real bright.

          • DON

            You claimed I am not that bright. You are not either, you just cling ed to your belief. You should have endorsed your findings to your congressman/senator in your district so they can provide you why it was passed. At least you will know the exact answer whether you believe it or not.

          • Jeff Johnson

            We pretty much are the UN, in case you hadn’t noticed. The reason the HQ was built in NYC was so we could spy on other nations in order to manipulate and control outcomes.

            The UN has never once sanctioned the US for all of our multitudes of illegal warring, overthrowing of democratically elected governments, assassinating of public leaders, poisoning lands abroad, etc., and we pretty much get them to go along with anything that we’ve ever wanted to do, including the illegal war against the innocent people of Iraq, which they didn’t initially give approval for, but eventually did wave a white flag on the issue.

            I cling to facts, not just my beliefs, Don. Sorry if those aren’t things that you routinely deal with, but that’s where I live.

            My congressman is a wingnut extremist who has never once responded to a single letter that I’ve sent him. My senators at the time were Wellstone and Coleman. Wellstone responded beautifully to my letter of concern. Coleman merely sent a perfunctory form letter back.

          • DON

            good luck to your “facts”. whatever your sources are.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Really? You don’t know how to research and find facts? ow. Start by turning off the Fox and Limbaugh.

          • DON

            In fact I do, I am just careful where the sources of information are coming from. By the way, what part of Limabaugh or Fox says that were not true?

          • Jeff Johnson

            Really? You have to ask that and you think that you’re being careful about your information sources? Fox and Limbaugh are right wing propaganda outlets, and nothing more. They are NOT news sources. You will NEVER, EVER get both sides of any story from them, and everything you get will be entirely slanted to the extreme far right. Wake up and yank the head out.

            You’re probably one of those who still thinks Saddam caused 9/11, had WMD when we launched our illegal war, and posed a genuine threat, right? Perhaps you’re not aware that multiple studies have found Fox viewers to be the most ignorant people in the country. The last such study actually found that people who don’t watch any news at all know more about the world around them than Fox viewers. And, this is what you consider to be a credible source?

            Remember that a grand total of 6 corporations, most of which have profit incentive tied to the war industrial complex, have control of all of the mainstream information being distributed. You won’t likely find the details of actual stories from any major media outlet these days.

            Use Al Gore’s internet tubes and seek out alternative sources. Al Jazeera is probably the most objective source right now, and has among the best actual journalism going on. The mainstream media cannot be trusted for complete stories on anything. They always have an agenda, whether it be hawking for a new war, pushing for some legislative action, or shoving political partisan bias down our throats.

            Whatever story it is that you’re interested in, seek out multiple sources online and read it all. That’s the ONLY way you’re going to hear both sides of any given story, and that’s the only way you’re ever going to be able to formulate your own objective opinion.

            Listen to Limbaugh and Fox alone and you get nothing but ridiculous, irrational Obama hate, biased and highly subjective stories involving race, women, voting rights, alternative energy, global warming, etc., etc., etc. They have a far right wing agenda, and all they do, 24/7, is taint stories to fit into that agenda. Blow up your TV.

          • DON

            Al Gore was paid by another Al..Al Jazeera billions of dollar. Al jazeera is owned by Qatar..Qatar is an oil producing country…have you check that yet?

          • Jeff Johnson

            You seem like you might be a fairly reasonable guy, for a right winger. My guess is that the only reason you vote republican is because you’ve been instructed to do so by your puppet masters, and you don’t even realize that you’re likely voting directly against your own best interests.

            There is NOTHING, not ONE SINGLE THING that republicans have brought to law that has benefited the masses, since Nixon created OSHA and the EPA, and, last I checked, today’s republicans want to abolish both, so that tells you where they’re at in terms of doing anything to help the tax99%.

            On virtually every single issue of the day, the majority of the nation sides with democratic ideals. Education, environment, social security, medicare, medicaid, global warming, fiscal responsibility, etc., etc., etc. There is virtually nothing that republicans have the majority on. Why? Because they’re entirely, 100% bought and owned by the corporate masters. They have nothing for the 99%, and they don’t care. They are strongly opposed to unions, the middle class, brown people, and women. Imagine that.

            Look at the Ryan budgets, that some have granted him super power status for drafting. They actually dramatically INCREASE our debt, while slashing funding for social infrastructure and actually destroying medicare and social security as we know them today. How can they possibly increase the national debt while slashing and destroying social spending programs, you ask? By massively increasing corporate welfare spending and tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires, as if that’s ever done anything but add enormous debt.

            The GOP is a walking corpse at this point. They have absolutely NOTHING to offer that’s worth considering. They are simply waiting for the inevitable complete collapse of the party. The lunatics have taken over and are driven the party into oblivion. Help them die, by casting your votes elsewhere. If we’re lucky, whatever rises from the ashes in the next 10-20 years will actually be a viable party again. Until then, they’re a dead dog.

          • DON

            did you ever find out if there was EVER a plan for the Dems to pay our debts?…they still want to increase our debt ceiling so the we can borrow more..right? now you are trying to lecture me about fiscal responsibility. I’ll give you a hint how to cut off spending. Eliminate non-essential Federal offices/spendings/bureacrats/contractors etc.. You know what is the primary job of the Federal Gov’t….Safety of this nation (military and homeland security). That means it will maintain the environment in promoting the GENERAL WELFARE of its citizens. It does not says it will create Welfare Program for its citizens (anything other than the primary I mentioned is a secondary) Now the budget has to be increased because of all the secondaries and still growing secondaries..thanks to blind followers like you.

          • Hellbilly000

            “It was predicated on the War Powers Act of 1973 (which, by my interpretation, is unconstitutional itself), which very specifically requires that in order to be granted permission for the use of military force, the POTUS must prove one of two scenarios.”

            Please, tell us all about your advanced degrees in Constitutional law…

          • Duane Hull

            Society’s lack of education? The taxpayers of this country provide a free education for every citizen. If you don;t make sure your children get an education, that’s on you.

          • Splattergrunt

            It’s not so much the “lack of education” but the quality of it and I put that blame squarely on too much emphasis on testing. Teachers are more or less forced to teach students on how to take SPECIFIC test…instead of doing their jobs and teaching kids. That’s not learning….that’s conditioning. Also, kid can’t pay attention? Give them meds. Kids acting up all the time? Give them more meds and separate them out into segregated groups.

          • Joshua Meade

            ….so the democrats pushing the common core initiative is the republicans fault?

          • TacticalYoda

            NOW you’re beginning to understand the liberal brain 🙂

          • Guest

            You sir are a moron…

          • Don Newcomb

            Jeff, you sir, are a moron…

          • Jeff Johnson

            Right, because anybody who espouses an opinion other than those of your right wing propaganda ministers is a moron. Of course. And you, sir, are a genius beyond all other geniuses who’ve ever walked the earth. You’re use of words is simply breathtakingly brilliant.

          • Bill Mattingly

            Very nice, but you’re still a MORON !!!!!

          • TxChristopher

            “You’re use of words is simply breathtakingly brilliant”

            translates to:

            “You are use of words is simply breathtakingly brilliant”

            There is no way you deserve any degree, when you do not have a complete grasp of 4th grade English.

          • TacticalYoda

            Grammar:
            The difference between:
            knowing your $h!t
            and everyone else knowing you’re $h!t

            You’re dismissed

          • Conservative Country Boy

            Oh Jeffy….spouting off again. You troll these little stories, and then make it political. Time to stop collecting disability and get a real job. The muzzrat wants you on his dime though, so he can control you

          • Rebecca Peterson

            Shrapnel fodder? Excuse me, but one must have either a high school diploma or GED to join the military.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Ooops. There’s someone who’s never served!

            In fact, all that’s required is a GED, and standards will also allow plea deals for convicted criminals, to serve in the military rather than in prison. I’ve served with some of them.

            It’s never been any great secret that the US military is the failed US capitalistic system of economics’ last resort employer, for those who either couldn’t qualify or couldn’t afford higher education. In other words, the very people that right wing policies have set up for failure all along.

          • Sandman70

            Not accurate. Very few GED holders can enlist. The Army allows the most, the AF the least. And it is roughly 10% and less of the ones who try. If you have 15+ college credits, then your GED is not looked at. As far as the jail or military… Here is the actuality… http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/joinprison.htm

          • TacticalYoda

            You mean like the “right wingers” did to Detroit??? I mean EVERYONE knows “right wingers” run that murderous haven that is Chicago… Dooshbag

          • Conservative Country Boy

            Oh…that explains a lot. a dishonorable discharge. I’d have pent up anger too…You thought it was supposed to be don’t ask don’t tell…..hahahahahah

          • DON

            plea deals for convicted criminals?…like you

        • azshopgirlie

          if I may suggest a correction to your equation, it’s not Dem voters they want, it’s no voters at all. That is their end game after all.

        • Allyson Newton

          Are you serious?
          Because people who require government assistance are always high school dropouts, and always vote democrat?!

          • HarryTheCat

            Yup.

          • Allyson Newton

            Can I see the data that backs this up?

          • HarryTheCat

            Just check you bathroom mirror. You’ll probably find all the proof you need right there. Or check with your “baby daddies” — that is, if you know who they are.

          • Allyson Newton

            So you’re attacking my character now? I only asked if you had some empirical evidence to back up your claims. I’m 21, unmarried, with no children, and I’m about to graduate with two bachelor’s degrees. Forgive me if I wanted to make sure your claims had some merit.

          • JohnnyJimmyJuJu

            and you’re still an idiot.

          • southernyankee05 .

            I have always said that just because teacher’s have a “degree” in teaching does not mean that they have any common sense.

            Allyson Newton… you are 21 and working on “two bachelor’s degrees” with absolutely no life experience behind you. Come on back when you have had a few children and have about 10-15 yrs. of work experience behind you and then I may listen. You are pretty arrogant for being only 21 yrs. old. That problem will be rectified when you get out into the real world.

            And… yes you are still an idiot !!!

          • JohnnyJimmyJuJu

            Nailed it! She’s a little girl talking like shes been around. She’s got a lot to learn.

          • Phil Grove

            Allyson Newton ,and your proof is from what research, study.. Oh that’s right it’s your EMOTIONAL belief because it’s what you want to believe so you can get on your pious pulpit, and feel superior and self admiration .of I sure told them= It’s called NARCISSISM !.

            Most poor people work more than one job, how many do you WORK !?
            Most critics of Liberals don’t even know why? Can you list your reasons.
            The things Liberals want probably are what most CONS want, access to a good education, good paying jobs and access to those jobs, access to affordable health care, womens rights, equal pay for equal work, a balanced budget.which according to the GAO in the last 70+ yrs the ave Repub Admin budget increased an ave 12-14% ,the ave Dem Admin budget increased 7-9 % …now tell me who the big spenders are ? 5 Dems Admins have had balanced budgets. Repubs- 0 .Libs want a fair tax structure where Corporation who are paying no taxes pay a fair share, and the wealthy who hide their wealth on offshore accts in the Caymans pay a fair share, How PATRIOTIC to hide money to avoid American taxes.or move your HQ’s offshore to avoid taxes…CAN YOU DO THAT ?., NO more senseless unpaid for wars.Sensible gun control-we don’t want to take your guns , but at least be sensible about it.
            Trickle down taxes doesn’t work and has failed everytime it’s been tried. so ask your self why is it the states who’ve raise their minimum wages have a growing and robust economy, =Blue States. Most all Red States rely more on Fed money than Blue states….why is that ? HUM!
            In closing…. it’s much harder to be a Liberal than a CONServative………..why ?………because it’s easier to give the middle finger than a helping hand …as Jesus taught.

          • Allyson Newton

            I’m sorry, I can’t hardly make out what you’re saying.

          • Allyson Newton

            If you’re asking if I work, yes, I do, and I go to school full time, earning two degrees in 4 years. I’m not pious, and I’m definitely not trying to put anyone else down. I’m just pointing out that this mom is doing more harm than good for her child when she writes this stuff on his work and makes him turn it in.
            What exactly do taxes and budgets have to do with what we’re talking about?

          • flybaby

            What are you going to do with your two degrees? I’m not impressed yet.

          • Allyson Newton

            I’m not trying to impress anyone…? Just offering an alternative view… isn’t that what a discussion forum is for…?

          • flybaby

            I’m impressed with kids going to college and staying there, however, I see so many youngsters get out of college with even one degree and they can’t find a job. Just wondering if you’re going to be able to use it. I had an accounting degree and wound up a pilot, because the pay was terrible. Since retirement it’s come in handy for part time work and the pay is STILL terrible. (Beats flipping burgers, even though it’s not much more than what they want). Hope yours is useful.

          • Allyson Newton

            I will have a degree in sociology and one in psychology. I have wanted to work for DHS for a while… I plan to work for them for several years, then attend graduate school to become a social worker.
            The pay isn’t what matters to me, as long as my needs are met. 🙂

          • flybaby

            Somehow I knew you were into being a social worker. A friend of mine was one and she says It’s a thankless job and not enough of them. It’s “reality”, big time. She was very idealistic when she got into it years ago and got so fed up with the system, she quit. I guess a lot of it depends on the City/State you’re in. Good luck to you in your endeavors!

          • Allyson Newton

            Thank you very much! I know I can’t change the world. But when I see parents basically telling their kids that it’s okay to break the rules and turn in halfway done assignments, I can’t help but think that those same kids will go on to break rules and do crap work for the rest of their lives. When you tell your child it’s not important to follow rules placed on you by your educated authority, aren’t you really telling your kids that they don’t have to follow authority at all? Kids who can’t respect authority get into trouble. Believe it or not, disrespect for authority starts when kids see their parents disrespect authority.

          • Ann Tipton Clemment

            Telling your child to blindly follow ‘authority’ smacks of a lack of independance. And the authoritarian approach is wrong. Prove your education by your action. Don’t pin a piece of paper to a wall and claim it equals education. Allowing the government to teach your child whatever it wants to is irresponsible, because the government will teach what benefits IT, not your child.

          • JohnnyJimmyJuJu

            Allyson is not very bright. She seems to that because she went to college it makes her intelligent….which obviously, based on her posts here, is far from the truth.

          • Allyson Newton

            Why do you say I’m not very bright?

          • They are telling you that you are not very bright because you are advocating blind obedience strictly because someone in authority says to do it. A person can be respectful of authority and teach their children respect without blindly following something they feel is wrong. Look at history, every major turning point starting with the forming of the US has happened because people didn’t blindly follow authority. As far as common core goes most are disgusted with it because it turns a very simple process into a complicated one that many if not most children have issues learning. If a child cannot understand it, then it is not helping our children learn and is in fact hurting our children. Most parents are not and should not blindly support something that they feel is detrimental to their child just because someone in authority says it works and that isn’t teaching our children to disregard authority but is teaching our children that people in authority are not always right and that sometimes to protect and support others you have to question and object to the way things are being done. My personal opinion on common core is that it needs to be used as a way to help children that have difficulties with traditional teaching but not used exclusively to the detriment of others. Allow the ones that learn traditionally to keep learning traditionally.

          • Allyson Newton

            I’m not saying that children should follow authority if that authority is trying to hurt them, at all. But a teacher who teaches math in a non-traditional way is hardly trying to hurt them.

          • Actually it is basically what you said, that they need to follow authority and parents shouldn’t object themselves to teach their kids to follow authority. And while the teacher may not be hurting the students intentionally, if a student is learning in a traditional manner and all of a sudden they are struggling nonstop then yes that is hurting that child and their are many teachers who agree, but they are being told they have to use common core. I’ve got a friend who’s child has gotten straight A’s throughout school and now they are getting D’s & F’s. The parent showed the child the traditional way of doing the math they were struggling with and they got it, but because they cannot follow common core they are failing, which is hurting that child. If our education system insists on using a way of teaching that causes many children not to learn, then yes that is hurting our children and something needs to change, which starts with parents like the one above objecting to it and not blindly going along with it because someone in authority says it works.

          • Ann Tipton Clemment

            I personally do not believe that the TEACHER is trying to HURT the child. What I do believe is that the government is attempting to organize education in such a way that it benefits government, and allows government to control people more easily. The best way to convince people that someone else should be making the decisions for them is to convince them that they are stupid. If you keep children confused, at the same time telling them that the concepts are very simple, and that they have been even further simplified by very smart people to make it easier for the children, and show them how hard everyone is trying to help them, but they still can’t understand….. You will make them believe they are stupid, and that they are not capable of understanding something as inherently complex as their own governance. They will leave all of the running of their business, their lives, to the government, and focus on just getting by, working to eat, and entertaining themselves. Dumbing down all the learning will make the smart kids believe they are stupid when in reality they are either confused or bored. It will teach the stupid kids just enough to make them believe they are average and cause them to reach higher than they are capable of and so make them fail. It will confuse and anger the average kids and make them give up. We will become mediocre, then drop below standard. The nation will be ruined. And it may take another generation or two, but if it keeps on, it will happen. But no, it’s not the individual teacher.

          • Allyson Newton

            Have you noticed that we are already far behind the standard of education for the rest of the world?
            Common Core has been piloted in other nations and has worked out beautifully. It amazes me that we, as Americans, are so far behind the rest of the developed world, and yet we are rejecting a plan that has proven to be so helpful in other places.

          • DON

            No Allyson, one of the main reason is that a lot of PARENTS are no longer teaching and helping their kids on school matters, homework etc. Its either the kids dont have Father or living with a single mom that has to do 2 jobs or lazy parents and just ask assistance from the government or liberal parents that will let the government take care of their kids education.

          • From what Marina Ratner Award winning Emerita Professor of Mathematics from Berkley has to say in an article in the Wall Street Journal, Common Core Standards will keep us behind other nations, not move us closer. http://online.wsj.com/articles/marina-ratner-making-math-education-even-worse-1407283282

            And R. James Milgram a professor emeritus of mathematics at Stanford University who served on the validation committee for the
            Common Core mathematics, but he would not agree to approve the standards. Here are some links to what he has to say…

            http://dianeravitch.net/2013/09/11/james-milgram-on-the-common-core-math-standards/
            http://hoosiersagainstcommoncore.com/dr-james-milgrams-open-letter-hoosiers/
            http://whatiscommoncore.wordpress.com/tag/james-milgram/

            And 5 of the Common Core Validation Committee refused to Validate the standards. http://www.hslda.org/commoncore/topic12.aspx

          • Jean Townsend

            Allyson, you are so wrong. You have bought into the lie that the USA is no longer an exceptional nation. If we’re so far behind in education, then why do all these people from other countries clammer to come here to go to our colleges? We are a nation that has accomplished more on the world stage in science than any nation in the world. We are still producing scientists and mathmeticians and medical geniuses that are finding new ways to treat diseases. I’m not saying other nations don’t contribute, but by far the United States is the greatest and most well educated nation on the face of the earth.

          • Allyson Newton

            How does one know if a child can learn that way, if they never give it a chance?

          • The ones objecting have tried and many of their children (or if a teacher their students) are failing and a lot of the children failing are ones that were excelling using the traditional method. Which would make it seem obvious that it’s not a way to teach all children but a way to help ones who have issues with the traditional method. In my opinion the main thing we can do to help our children learn and understand math is make them use their minds only and not calculators or computers to solve problems, not make simple processes more complicated.

          • CPSmurf

            Except that traditional methods are still being taught under the Common Core Initiative. Additionally, there is no evidence that children are failing more under the Common Core Initiative than before. Most of the objections to Common Core have to do with political ideology or just plain ignorance as to what the standard is.

          • No actually it does not use traditional methods, it teaches traditional problems with new methods and is supposed to teach children to understand number sense, which doesn’t work for many when instead it confuses them and turns simple problems into complex processes that they don’t grasp. The evidence that children are failing under the common core initiative is the children that have gone from being A & B students to being D & F students since it’s introduction and as a parent who talks to other parents and teachers their objections have nothing to do with political ideology or ignorance and everything to do with watching children who were excelling become confused, discouraged and fail because they don’t understand what they are being taught anymore.

          • CPSmurf

            No, Michelle, you are wrong. Read this and it disputes your claim.

            http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/4/NBT/B/4/

            It states: Fluently add and subtract multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm.

            The standard algorithm is the “traditional method”.

            “The evidence that children are failing…”

            So someone has compiled this data that shows the drop from A/B to D/F?

            Do you have children in the 4th grade?

          • Here’s a couple of images of what you claim is “traditional” does it look traditional to you? No matter how common core was intended to be it mostly makes simple processes more complicated and harder for many children to grasp. As far as children no mine are older but I have multiple nieces and nephews in grade school and also have numerous teachers in my family. How about you? Besides that common core effects more than just grade school students. As far as evidence when a teacher has more than a couple of students having issues with what is being taught there is a problem and when more than 5-10 parents in one class have children that were doing great in school suddenly not able to grasp something because of the way it is being shown there is a problem. As I said before for some it works great and use those methods on them, for others focus on what was working.

          • CPSmurf

            I don’t claim it is traditional at all. In fact, without a frame of reference — class, school, school district, state, your images are not proof that the traditional method is not being taught. In fact, you would need to provide the curriculum being taught — which is usually readily available — to prove that it is NOT being taught. Additionally, these images DO NOT dispute the fact that the method of long subtraction is required to be taught.

            “Besides that common core effects more than just grade school students.”

            Right. But the traditional method of subtraction is taught in 4th grade.

            “As far as evidence…”

            I’m an accountant. I deal in quantitative data. Your claim was that students who were A/B went to D/F. How many students? What % increase of students failing from the previous class is that? When you throw out numbers such as 5-10, it indicates to me that no actual data has been collected at all.

            My question about if you had a student in the 4th grade was to determine if this is first hand information or something else. Clearly you have no data to support your claim.

          • I’ll ask again What about you? Do you have any experience with children and common core at all? The above images (and please can you honestly look at those and say they are a good way to teach most children) show what parents and teachers are having issues with when using common core. The Louisiana Governor is even suing the Federal Government over common core and his main complaint is that common core isn’t about a set of standards but a way to control the curriculum taught. The way common core is being taught (and ALL the approved workbooks I have seen have problems like the ones I posted or worse in them) turns simple problems into complex methods making them more difficult for many children to grasp and it gets worse the higher the grade level. As for statistical numbers no I don’t have exact numerical data, I don’t deal with quantitative data, I deal with children, teachers, and parents and when NOT A SINGLE PERSON I have spoken to about common core is supportive of it and EVERYONE of them has had a negative comment about either a child failing or one struggling that didn’t before it tells me that there is a problem with it. As far as the 5-10 parents it was a school event with many of us discussing the issues, so no I didn’t stop and take a head count on just who all there voiced concern that their children were struggling in math because of the new methods. Personally I was taught basic arithmetic, number sense, number sequence, number logic, etc.. and I never saw garbage like the above, I also used my mind to solve the problems, I wasn’t handed a calculator in class and told to use it. If you want statistics that there is a problem with common core do a search and read the comments, weed out the random rants and just look at the ones that are saying their children or their students are struggling with it now when they weren’t before, there are too many of them for there not to be a problem.

          • CPSmurf

            Michelle, I’m sure you’re a good and well meaning person, but your personal anecdotes about common core are meaningless. I too, deal with children, teachers and parents, and EVERYONE I’ve spoken with is supportive of it. Of course, I’m a progressive, politically active, and spend my time around people with the same core beliefs — and I’m sure that you spend time with people who simply don’t like the Common Core Initiative.

            But since Oklahoma has repealed Common Core, I’m sure that students there will skyrocket back to where they were — 44th in spending and 41st in test scores. Now that’s some quantitative data to be proud of…

          • Do you deal with those children, teachers and parents in a learning environment where you see first hand how many have issues with the way things are taught under common core? I have and those “anecdotes” you so quaintly put down as meaningless are first hand experiences with those children, parents & teachers dealing with the new curriculum under common core and since I lived in Arkansas (which adopted common core in 2010 & began using it in different grade levels each successive year) prior to Oklahoma I have a good deal of that first hand experience. As far as Oklahoma’s educational standings since I just moved here I can’t comment on their past performance, but I do know that the two schools I investigated before enrolling my daughter had both received Scholar Merit awards for the last two years. Also you might want to find a new website to get your information from since your information on Oklahoma is outdated. Common Core may have been intended as just a set of standards saying what all students should know at a certain level, but that is not what it is turning into. It has turned into a method of teaching that for many do not work. Math is a logical process and the way things are being taught under common core curriculum takes simple problems and makes them complex, which is an illogical way to do things. I have no issue with setting educational levels for children to achieve, but I do have problems with something being used exclusively to the detriment of many. As I said to start with for some the methods being used now work and for many they don’t, our educators need to work out a way to apply the new methods to the ones who excel under them and a way to use the traditional methods for the ones who do excel under them.

          • CPSmurf

            Michele, you are full of contradictions. Go away.

          • Where are the contradictions? Where I point out your data is outdated? Where I ask if you have any first hand experience with the children in a learning environment? Or where I repeat that for some the methods used work, but for many they don’t. If you don’t have that first hand experience quit looking at things on the internet and go get some. Volunteer to tutor at a local school and get some experience in how the children are dealing with the curriculum under common core and some experience in how it is being implemented then make an informed opinion instead of just repeating what is on the common core site. Oh and by the way Arkansas who implemented common core years ago has a state ranking of 45. The states with high rankings are the ones that were already ranked high and whether they adopted common core or not hasn’t changed it. But I’m done as far as this conversation is concerned, you are one of the numerous people that look at what something says on paper and decides it’s a great idea, but you don’t touch on the reality of it. Enjoy yourself.

          • CPSmurf

            Michelle, you’re an ignorant twit. As I’ve already pointed out, I’m heavily involved in Common Core and deal with children, teachers and parents.

            The fact of the matter is that Common Core is just now being implemented in most states. Arkansas, for example, only implemented high school standards this past year. Grades 3-8 the prior year and K-2 the year before that.

            This idea that Common Core is a failure is NOT supported by ANY quantitative data.

          • You have yet to say your involvement with the children, parents and common core is from a learning environment. Have you taught or tutored the methods you support and do you have a child who is dealing with the curriculum? Yes I know Arkansas implemented the common core standards in stages, if you look at my comment I said as much. Being a substitute teacher for grades k-5, having children myself and having friends who teach a variety of grades, besides knowing parents with children at a variety of ages means I have had personal experience with common core since 2011 when it was first starting to be phased into public schools in Arkansas. No I do not have “quantitative data” as I stated before I HAVE REAL LIFE experience with the curriculum and while there is no “quantitative data” to say it is a failure there is also NO “quantitative data” saying it is a success either. You are great at quoting information you find online about common core here’s a quote for you from an article from the Wall Street Journal by Marina Ratner who is an emerita professor of mathematics at Berkeley ” Simple concepts are made artificially intricate and complex with the pretense of being deeper—while the actual content taught was primitive.” ( http://online.wsj.com/articles/marina-ratner-making-math-education-even-worse-1407283282 ). As I said math is logical and to take a simple problem and make it more complex just to use a method most find incomprehensible is illogical and while the process works for some individuals it does not work for many others. Again as I said before use the methods with the students who do excel but use other methods with the ones it doesn’t work with. Any teacher will tell you that not all students learn the same way and using something that so many find incomprehensible defeats the purpose of providing our students with a firm educational foundation and if we wait for all that “quantitative data” you keep going on about we will have failed many students because each number in your “quantitative data” represents a child who will have failed. Oh and I’m the ignorant twit, but you are the one who resorts to name calling like an 8 yr old when people question or disagree with you????? Yeah, such an intelligent rebuke, Good Bye

          • CPSmurf

            Michelle, simple questions for you. Do you have an issue with the Common Core Standard or the methods being used to meet the standard?

            “Any teacher will tell you that not all students learn the same way…”

            I’ve said as much.

            “do you have a child who is dealing with the curriculum?”

            I don’t know. Since each school district uses different curriculum and I have no idea which school district you are comparing, I can not answer that.

            I know students who a dealing with A curriculum, however.

            “I HAVE REAL LIFE experience with the curriculum”

            Which curriculum? See my statement above.

            As I have CONTINUALLY pointed out, Common Core Initiative is a STANDARD. What you have an issue with are the METHODS.

            Ditching the standard because you don’t like the methods, is like selling your car because you don’t like the brand of tires that are on it.

            For some reason, though, even after my explanations, you keep trying to say that the methods and the standard are the same thing. They aren’t.

            It’s not that you “disagree” with me or that I “disagree” with you. It’s impossible to “disagree” with someone over established facts.

          • Ok,
            we’ll use Any common core approved curriculum.

            You:
            “I know
            students who are dealing with A curriculum”, (I’m assuming you meant “who are”
            and not “who a”)

            How
            do you know these students? Do you have or know a child THAT YOU SIT DOWN WITH
            AND GO OVER THE PROBLEMS being taught with ANY Common Core approved curriculum
            or do you have any EXPERIENCE IN A LEARNING ENVIRONMENT (tutoring, teaching,
            etc..) with students being taught with ANY Common Core approved curriculum?

            You:
            “For some
            reason, though, even after my explanations, you keep trying to say that the
            methods and the standard are the same thing. They aren’t.”

            What
            you can’t seem to wrap your mind around (no matter how many ways it’s explained)
            is that while the standard is not supposed to be the same as the CURRICULUM, the
            methods (or strategies as they are referred to in the standards) for problem
            solving ARE part of the standards (why do you think people from different
            schools using different curriculum complain about the same things?), one goes
            with the other. Children are supposed to be able to solve or understand A
            (whichever problem type) using B, C, D &/or E (METHODS/STRATEGIES) to meet
            the standards, so yes the methods/strategies ARE part of the standards.
            As
            I stated earlier even the Louisiana
            Governor is suing the Federal Government over common core and his main complaint
            is that common core isn’t about a set of standards but a way to control the
            curriculum taught. While it doesn’t give a set curriculum or tell teachers
            exactly how (though they are not supposed to deviate from the structure as it’s
            laid out) it does require children to be able to use certain methods/strategies
            to solve problems. Under the common core standards all approved
            curriculum takes simple problems and makes them complex so they can be solved,
            by what for many are inherently illogical methods, to meet those standards.
            Which frankly doesn’t make much sense itself, since part of the goal of the
            standards is that children will be able to solve problems SENSIBLY &
            EFFICIENTLY and many people find problems like the ones above anything but
            sensible & efficient, but they are in approved curriculum. According to the
            Common Core criteria for approved curriculum, any curriculum “should
            reflect the
            progressions on which the CCSSM are built” If you read the progressions they
            demonstrate/describe the knowledge & the methods/strategies (modeling,
            composing, decomposing etc..) each child at each grade level are supposed
            to understand & be able to use. While I get that the methods are supposed
            to help children understand math and help children for whom English is a second
            language be able to see, understand and demonstrate math concepts better, what
            you and other total supporters don’t get, is that just like there were many
            children who had problems and failed under completely traditional methods, there
            are many who have problems and are failing under the new methods being
            used.

            You: “It’s not that
            you “disagree” with me or that I “disagree” with you. It’s impossible to
            “disagree” with someone over established facts.”

            Well there
            you are wrong, people disagree over “established facts” all the time, look at
            science. I happen to disagree with you over what you consider “established
            facts”

          • CPSmurf

            “I happen to disagree with you over what you consider ‘established facts'”

            Which makes you an ignorant twit. A fact, such as “The Empire State building is x feet and x inches in height” can’t be disputed. We can’t have a disagreement over that fact.

            “Under the common core standards all approved curriculum takes simple problems and make them complex so they can be solved, by what for many are inherently illogical methods, to meet those standards.”

            I think you mean “can’t”.

            Quantitative data? What number is “many”?

            “…there are many who have problems and are failing under the new methods being
            used.”

            Again, quantitative data?

            In answer to your questions, about the children I know — Yes to all of them. My grandson seems to do well. I know of other children who are having some difficulty. However, I know of no quantitative data that suggests that Common Core is a failure.

            “What you can’t seem to wrap your mind around (no matter how many ways it’s explained) is that while the standard is not supposed to be the same as the CURRICULUM, the methods (or strategies as they are referred to in the standards) for problem solving ARE part of the standards…”

            No, I can wrap my mind around it, other than you yapping about it, you’ve not provided any evidence of it. For example, explain how CCSS.Math.Content.3.NF.A.2 (the standard) is also the method. It doesn’t have to be this particular standard, but find a standard that is also the method.

          • You “Which makes you an ignorant twit. A fact, such
            as “The Empire State building is x feet and x inches in height” can’t be
            disputed. We can’t have a disagreement over that fact.”

            Again the name calling makes such an intelligent
            rebuke. Since the conversation was about the Common Core & Methods used, I don’t believe I argued the height of The Empire State Building, But I do disagree
            with what you view as “established facts” on the Common Core
            Standards

            You: “I think you mean “can’t”.”

            No, I meant just what I said. Under the common
            core standards all approved curriculum takes simple problems and makes them
            complex so they CAN be solved by, what for many are inherently illogical
            methods, to meet those standards. Meaning the problems are turned complex to
            allow the methods to be used to solve them.

            You: “Quantitative data? What number is
            “many”?”

            Since again, I’m not a CPA or anyone else that
            deals with Quantitative data, I don’t have a clue on the numbers, but you could
            scroll through this thread alone and find “many” who find the methods
            illogical.

            You: “In answer to your questions, about the
            children I know — Yes to all of them. My grandson seems to do well. I know of
            other children who are having some difficulty. However, I know of no
            quantitative data that suggests that Common Core is a failure.”

            I’m going to assume your answer means you help
            hands on with the children’s work, though you never have said how. Above you
            say you know of other children having difficulty, but immediately refer to
            “quantitative data”. If we take years acquiring your “quantitative data” we
            will have failed “many” children, because each number in your data will have
            represented a child that failed. If you look at just how many people there are
            on this thread and all others like it who are commenting about problems, you
            shouldn’t need exact numbers to tell you that there are issues.

            You: “No, I can wrap my mind around it, other than
            you yapping about it, you’ve not provided any evidence of it. For example,
            explain how CCSS.Math.Content.3.NF.A.2 (the standard) is also the method. It
            doesn’t have to be this particular standard, but find a standard that is also
            the method”

            Let’s see if I can continue
            yapping (shows such maturity in the reply) at you a bit more. I did not say
            the METHODS ALONE were the standards, BUT THEY ARE PART
            OF THE STANDARDS. To achieve the standards you must be able to show
            knowledge/skill of the topic and knowledge/skill of the methods to solve them.
            As far as evidence, I did tell you to read the Common Core
            Progressions, though mainly I assumed you could read the standards and see what was a method and what was knowledge or skill.

            But as for the Standard that you referenced (I have inserted the words either skill, method
            or knowledge in parentheses into the standards so you can actually see the break
            down of them.)

            CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.NF.A.2
            Understand a fraction as a number on the number
            line; represent fractions on a number line diagram

            CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.NF.A.2.A
            (Skill) Represent a fraction 1/b on
            a number line diagram (Method) BY defining the interval from 0 to 1 as the whole
            and partitioning it into b equal parts. (Knowledge) Recognize that each
            part has size 1/b and that the endpoint of the part based at 0
            locates the number 1/b on the number line.

            CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.NF.A.2.B
            (Skill) Represent a fraction a/b on
            a number line diagram (Method) BY marking off a lengths 1/b from 0. (Knowledge) Recognize that the
            resulting interval has size a/b and that its endpoint locates the
            number a/b on
            the number line.

            and here is another
            standard for you that shows both skill & methods to achieve the standard and
            references Concrete models, composing, decomposing etc…

            CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.7
            (Skill)
            Add and subtract within 1000, (Method) USING CONCRETE MODELS or drawings
            and STRATEGIES based on place value, properties of operations, and/or the
            relationship between addition and subtraction; (Skill) relate the strategy to a
            written method. (Knowledge of Methods) Understand that in adding or subtracting
            three-digit numbers, one adds or subtracts hundreds and hundreds, tens and tens,
            ones and ones; and sometimes it is necessary to COMPOSE OR DECOMPOSE tens or
            hundreds.

            As
            I have said THE METHODS ARE A PART OF THE STANDARDS.

            I understand the new
            methods being used are supposed to give children a deeper understanding of math
            and help those that English is a second language for, but just like children who
            failed under traditional methods, there are those failing under these. Not
            everyone’s thought processes work the same, for some the abstract &
            conceptual aspects of these methods will cause them to excel, for others facts
            & figures and hard data works better, any set of standards need to allow for both
            mindsets and the Common Core Standards as they stand now don’t.

          • CPSmurf

            Please edit your comment so that I can read it.

            Thanks!

          • Not sure what you can’t read since it displays the full comment fine, from my end. Other than the format for some reason divided sentences into two lines after I hit post the information is all still there and in order from my computer and two others in the house.

          • CPSmurf

            Generally you have to edit it by removing extra lines.

          • deleted original and replied in two parts

          • You “Which makes you an ignorant twit. A fact, such
            as “The Empire State building is x feet and x inches in height” can’t be disputed. We can’t have a disagreement over that fact.”

            Again the name calling. Since the conversation was about the Common Core & Methods used, I don’t believe I argued the height of The Empire State Building, But I do disagree with what you view as “established facts” on the Common Core Standards

            You: “I think you mean “can’t”.”

            No, I meant just what I said. Under the common
            core standards all approved curriculum takes simple problems and makes them complex so they CAN be solved by, what for many are inherently illogical
            methods, to meet those standards. Meaning the problems are turned complex to allow the methods to be used to solve them.

            You: “Quantitative data? What number is
            “many”?”

            Since again, I’m not a CPA or anyone else that
            deals with Quantitative data, I don’t have a clue on the numbers, but you could scroll through this thread alone and find “many” who find the methods illogical.

            You: “In answer to your questions, about the
            children I know — Yes to all of them. My grandson seems to do well. I know of other children who are having some difficulty. However, I know of no quantitative data that suggests that Common Core is a failure.”

            I’m going to assume your answer means you help
            hands on with the children’s work, though you never have said how. Above you say you know of other children having difficulty, but immediately refer to
            “quantitative data”. If we take years acquiring your “quantitative data” we will have failed “many” children, because each number in your data will have represented a child that failed. If you look at just how many people there are on this thread and all others like it who are commenting about problems, you shouldn’t need exact numbers to tell you that there are issues.

            Continued in next reply

          • You: “No, I can wrap my mind around it, other than
            you yapping about it, you’ve not provided any evidence of it. For example, explain how CCSS.Math.Content.3.NF.A.2 (the standard) is also the method. It doesn’t have to be this particular standard, but find a standard that is also the method”

            Let’s see if I can continue yapping (shows such maturity in the reply) at you a bit more. I did not say that the METHODS ALONE were the standards, BUT THEY ARE PART OF THE STANDARDS. To achieve the standards you must be able to show knowledge/skill of the topic and knowledge/skill of the methods to solve them.
            As far as evidence, I did tell you to read the Common Core Progressions, though mainly I assumed you could read the standards and see what was a method and what was knowledge or skill.

            But as for the Standard that you referenced (I have inserted the words either skill, method or knowledge in parentheses into the standards so you can actually see the break down of them.)

            CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.NF.A.2
            Understand a fraction as a number on the number
            line; represent fractions on a number line diagram

            CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.NF.A.2.A
            (Skill) Represent a fraction 1/b on a number line diagram (Method) BY defining the interval from 0 to 1 as the whole and partitioning it into b equal parts. (Knowledge) Recognize that each part has size 1/b and that the endpoint of the part based at 0 locates the number 1/b on the number line.

            CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.3.NF.A.2.B
            (Skill) Represent a fraction a/b on a number line diagram (Method) BY marking off a lengths 1/b from 0. (Knowledge) Recognize that the resulting interval has size a/b and that its endpoint locates the number a/b on
            the number line.

            and here is another standard for you that shows both skill & methods to achieve the standard and references Concrete models, composing, decomposing etc…

            CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.2.NBT.B.7
            (Skill) Add and subtract within 1000, (Method) USING CONCRETE MODELS or drawings and STRATEGIES based on place value, properties of operations, and/or the relationship between addition and subtraction; (Skill) relate the strategy to a written method. (Knowledge of Methods) Understand that in adding or subtracting
            three-digit numbers, one adds or subtracts hundreds and hundreds, tens and tens, ones and ones; and sometimes it is necessary to COMPOSE OR DECOMPOSE tens or
            hundreds.

            As I have said THE METHODS ARE A PART OF THE STANDARDS.

            I understand the new methods being used are supposed to give children a deeper understanding of math
            and help those that English is a second language for, but just like children who failed under traditional methods, there are those failing under these. Not everyone’s thought processes work the same, for some the abstract & conceptual aspects of these methods will cause them to excel, for others facts & figures and hard data works better, any set of standards need to allow for both
            mindsets and the Common Core Standards as they stand now don’t.

          • CPSmurf

            Michelle, I think it’s apparent that you don’t understand the difference between a standard and a method.

            Can you now explain how any of the standards you’ve shown are inefficient and that there are better “methods” than what is described in Common Core — for these standards?

          • CPSmurf

            “(and ALL the approved workbooks I have seen have problems like the ones I posted or worse in them)”

            And ALL the approved workbooks I have seen teach the standard method. We were discussing YOUR claim that the standard method isn’t taught.

            Remember?

          • Guest

            I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, but children need to have a good foundation in basic math skills before jumping to complicated math charts and graphs and equations. How will you teach a child to multiply and divide if they still do not have the basic addition and subtraction down? This is my fight. How will a child know how to spell if they are only taught word games, and given multiple choice tests instead of the basic “teach them to spell the word and the meaning of that word” first. More parents will pull their children from the school system and use alternate methods of education because of this.Just saying.

          • Matt

            This is how I break down math problems in my head. Unfortunately this is poorly worded, but if the concept is taught correctly it is an effecrive way to learn. For example, 127 *7=889. This process would say 100*7=700. 20*7=140, and 7*7=49. Add the sums up and you have 889. Its a different way to learn. Johnny’s mistake was that he didn’t go to 10th before the hundreds. Seriously, if the woman (with the Engineering Degree no less) in the illustrated example couldn’t figure it out, do you think we are teaching the best possible methods out there? Simply knowing how to subtract doesn’t set you up for success. Understanding math (or whatever you attempt to do) and why we do what we do is a cornerstone for a lot of things in life and a lot of future math principles that the child will learn. Most of the people on here are complaining because they believe it’s too hard. Think about that for a second. Oh, and I have a Bachelor’s in a business study.

          • Matt

            I agree some may find it complicated but the U.S. is sorely behind many nations in education. Its time to think outside the box. Math isnt everyone’s cup of tea, but oversimplifying everything and babying our children isn’t going to set them up for success. Providing alternatives and understanding of how complicated problems gets their minds thinking outside the box. Instead of bitching about problems, why don’t you take proactive steps in figuring out the solution.

          • For some the method works and for others it doesn’t. Sorry, I find the method an illogical way to do a simple problem and is one of the issues I personally have, math is a logical process and to deliberately make a simple problem complex and apply what for many is an illogical method to solve it confuses many students which defeats the purpose of building a firm foundation in mathematics for our students. The various approved curriculum being used under common core leaves no room for flexibility. A standard that all children have to reach at certain levels is great because there are many who are behind, but using methods that cause many to fail in exclusion of others is detrimental to getting our students at a competent level. Not all children learn the same, every teacher that has any experience will tell you that different techniques have to be applied to different students or many will fail. I showed my daughter ( who was in advanced Calculus by 10th grade so she has a very good grasp of mathematics) some problems like the images I shared in a comment above and her reaction was complete confusion and “WTH” she couldn’t comprehend why they would be done like that, so if a student who is advanced in mathematics has a reaction like that what do you think many grade school students and their parents are doing?

          • Oh and the woman in the letter with the Engineering Degree was being sarcastic not literal and was pointing out the total illogical reasoning behind doing the problem the way it was shown.

          • DON

            they call it PRACTICE. Some people are too lazy to practice math solving. the ONLY way to the solve math issues.

          • Karen Richmond Brzezicki

            Yes I do. I taught my 12 year old standard math after he struggled. His grades improved rapidly. I was told it was not teaching methods but his intelligence level. I ad him tested and he performed 2 grades ABOVE his level done the standard way…sorry that is evidence in my own experience the new methods are a fail for some.

          • CPSmurf

            12 years old are in 6th grade, usually. In Illinois the standard began to be adopted in fall of 2012 and fully adopted in 2013. As a result, and as expected, test scores and grades dropped — but that always happens in the transition.

            The standard is sound. It just means that more is expected of students. Considering that 30% of students in Illinois who start high school go on to get a college degree, your son is behind the curve — and that has nothing to do with his intelligent level, but with what he’s learning. Yes, its hard to learn new things, but the standard is sound.

          • DON

            great this should be a good answer on Allyson’s question ” How does one know if a child can learn that way?”

          • Karen Richmond Brzezicki

            Why change the way they are learning if it works? Why force it when it doesn’t?

          • DON

            you are a Psychologist as you claimed…and you still dont get it? I’m sorry but you are out of touch with reality, you need to get yourself out of your theories once in a while. It’s like a politician who believes in theories in business but has no experience in actual business telling business men that this common core works…give it a chance.

          • Allyson Newton

            Actually, I never said I was a psychologist. I have no interest in becoming a psychologist. Did you read my comment?

          • DON

            you said you have a degree in psychology? maybe you are not licensed yet, but that is your line of specialty.

          • DON

            why are you insisting of reinventing the wheel?

          • DON

            you are confused Allyson..maybe you should ask another Psychologist or else Psychiatrist. ..The bottom line of the discussion is why is the government shoving this common core to our kids mouth.

          • Allyson Newton

            I’m not saying the government should teach whatever they want to. They are teaching the same things they have always taught, just in different ways this time.
            And yes, children do need to learn to follow authority. If you want your kids to listen to their teachers, then you have to show them that you are doing the same thing.

          • Karen Richmond Brzezicki

            Not blindly I dont

          • Michelle Trahan Orgeron

            Exactly! My children are being taught by the New Orleans Charter School System. They are coming home with 5 subjects of homework a night as 1st and 3rd graders. Both have A.D.D. and we do homework till they go to bed at 9:00. So yes, this mom does send notes on my kids homework because they will not be punished for doing their best from sunrise till sunset. I want my kids to be kids, not robots.They won’t be punished at recess for not turning in all their homework.

          • Neil08

            “Telling your child to blindly follow ‘authority’ smacks of a lack of independance.”

            Or it smacks of church-going parents, or those old Father-knows-best conservative parents. They’re far more authoritarian than a democratically elected government controlled by We, the people.

          • JohnnyJimmyJuJu

            You are truly an idiot of major league proportions if you think “the People” control the government. LOL….SMH. Wow…..

          • DON

            Yes Neil08 we have to be authoritarian to our kids until we “release” them ready on their own…that is called parenting (its an obligation, its our responsibilities, unless you want the government to be responsible)

          • betty

            Parents, in fact, have a DUTY to teach children to stand up for themselves. This curriculum is for the teachers – since many of them are incapable of doing the work in the customary manner – they had to find a way to make themselves look ‘smart’ or necessary. Online learning is demonstrating the inadequacies of many in the field of eduction.

          • Allyson Newton

            Betty, teachers go to school for the same amount of time that other disciplines do, and they have to pass the same type of strenuous exams and classes that everyone else does, as well. For you to say that the majority of teachers can’t do what they are teaching, is preposterous and seems like a very ignorant statement.

          • SinDelle Morte

            Absolutely. Teaching your child to obey the rules is one thing. Teaching them to blindly follow whatever they are told is something else. My kids are taught the consequences of choosing not to follow the rules. That’s right, I said CHOOSING. Because I am not raising robots. I am raising human beings. My children are 18, 13 and 8. They don’t drink, smoke, do drugs, have sex or even swear. They go to school, they have friends, they get good grades. They are respectful and considerate. Do you know why? Because when you simply teach blind obedience, you eventually end up with reckless rebellion. When you teach consequences and choice, you end up with people smart enough to make the right decisions.

          • Daniel John Ashbridge

            Perhaps you need to refresh your understanding of Common Core. Using common core, if you arrive at the wrong answer it is still considered correct and graded correct, so long as you can show the drawn out method of how you arrived at such an answer. Common core is designed to make dumb kids feel smart, and smart above average kids feel dumb.

            Common core does nothing but take true motivation to learn. It basically places everyone on the “correct answer” playing field.

          • SinDelle Morte

            Damn, that is a good comment right there.

          • CPSmurf

            “I had an accounting degree and wound up a pilot, because the pay was terrible.”

            Ha! Great accountants make bank.

          • flybaby

            You may keep your boring job – actually you lost a whole day making all that money. I had a lot more fun as a pilot, paid well and not to bad for a WOMAN! Anything more from your lying ass will be deleted – you need to make up for yesterday.

          • CPSmurf

            Actually, I didn’t. As you said, you failed as an accountant.

          • Robert Stone

            The problem here is that there is no right or wrong! There are uncountable ways to get to the same answer in mathematics.
            I can see some value in what they are trying to do, but the problem lies in teaching it at such a low grade level where the focus should be not on why 2+2=4 just that it does.

            For example I don’t need to know why gas makes a car’s motor run, but I do need to know that if I put gas in my car it will run. Now if I’m a mechanic, which requires special training, I would need to know why gas makes a car’s motor run.

            Children at this age do not need to know why 2+2=4 they only need to know that it does. Leave the explanation as to why it does for later. I have two engineering degrees and I didn’t use number lines until they were necessary. 2+2 should be something you do in your head not on a number line period!

          • Kim Cocciolillo

            Please, explain. how the mother is doing more harm than good, to her son? MY inadequate intelligence must be showing through,since i don’t understand your comment at all.

          • Allyson Newton

            She’s sending him to turn in an assignment that has not been completed. Granted, she did not understand the question, but rather than teaching her son that the right thing to do is to ask for help when you don’t understand something, instead she pitched a fit on his homework and now, he has to accept a bad grade for it. Pretty simple.

          • Richard Tanner

            Whoever wrote this math problem has a warped brain. What happened to normal mathematics. I can’t figure out how the number line has anything to do with subtraction. I guess I must be stupid.

          • Allyson Newton

            You’re not stupid, at all. The number line is just an illustration of what is actually going on when you subtract a smaller number from a larger number. When you subtract 100 from 200, you would draw a number line ranging from 0 to 200. Place a dot at 200, then draw a line back 100 units. The number that you arrive at after going back 100 units (the number 100) is your answer. Place a dot there, and you have illustrated that you started with 200, but you subtracted 100 to give you an answer of 100. I had to solve many problems using number lines in school, and I was in school long before common core was.

          • DON

            these are the exact things that we are trying to avoid..because its a waste of time.

          • Allyson Newton

            So… you never had to use a number line when you took elementary math?

          • Josh Mondle

            No.

          • Allyson Newton

            Then your teacher didn’t cover the frameworks that he or she was supposed to. Unless you went to school before the 1960s.

          • JohnnyJimmyJuJu

            YOU ARE TRULY AN IDIOT…AND YOU LIKE TO CONTINUE TO POST HERE TO PROVE IT.

          • Allyson Newton

            Yet I seem to be one of the few who is setting up an actual argument, instead of just throwing insults around. Can you please tell me why you think I’m stupid, instead of just telling me that I am? Is it because I disagree with you?

          • tiorbinist

            Have you “set up an actual argument?” Oh do tell!

            All you have done so far is to throw out slogan-level phrases and ne’er-beer interpretations of CC advertisements.

            Let’s see you set up an actual argument.

          • Goober Wad

            I have a master degree in science. I remember number lines. I thought they helped make certain problems make sense. Bringing politics into common core is ludicris. Almost as ludicris as common core itself. Math and science algorithms cannot be learned properly if you make a 2 or 3 step problem a 30 or 40 step problem. This does not mean you are rich, poor, stupid, liberal, or conservative. This is a very bipartisan issue for all our kids. The math part is scary enough and will not prepare our kids for higher math. Anyone who thinks otherwise is trying to polish a turd. I don’t know why people cannot step back and admit that this system is very dysfunctional. The more disturbing part of common core is not the math. It’s the history of the world that is being told. Yes… number lines are fine. But trying to assume kids’ feeling will get hurt if you have them memorize a few foundational addition or subtraction problems (like 1-10 and “bottom bigger, better borrow) would be like you saying memorizing a few foundational “sight words” to help their reading is bad. This is bad on both sides of the isle… In fact there shouldn’t even be an isle. These are our kids. Everyone needs to stop playing the devil’s advocate and use your own NON common core judegment.

          • Allyson Newton

            Nobody is worried about hurting feelings. There is a push for kids to understand a process rather than just memorizing answers. If you memorize that 5+5=10, have you learned anything about how you arrived at that answer? Nope. You just know somebody told you that you had to memorize it.

          • Mike T.

            Yup! The questions use to be. “You have 5 apples. You friend gives you 5 more apples. How many apples in total do you now have?” Dont need a damn number line.

          • DON

            have you tried counting your fingers and find out later that it was the same? Then it is easier to memorize, subtraction , multiplication, division and so forth. so stop your nonsense

          • Allyson Newton

            Okay, so what you’re saying is, we should just teach all the kids to count on their fingers? And what happens when they run out of appendages with which to count?

          • tiorbinist

            Really, Allyson, aren’t you telling us just that: that counting on your fingers is ok? Don’t develop a sense of number value, just count the hundreds down the number line. Don’t learn a self-checking approach which merely requires a 10×10 matrix of Single-column sums to be memorized, instead, only to subtract by one, and hope that you don’t get the magnitudes mixed up, like our buddy Jack?

          • DON

            you are hopeless

          • Tamara Piccard

            I agree. This is meant to teach real world problem solving rather than rote mathematics. In the real world, ask yourself how you know the lady at the McDonald’s gave you the wrong change? First, your brain estimated by the largest place holder; then it whittled its way down to the ones. This is what core mathematics is attempting to teach children and frankly my kids understand it. They also understand standardized mathematical equations. We want kids to use their higher estimation and approximation skills so that they get to the answers faster and more efficiently. It is a faster method once you learn the basics. Carrying numbers when you are doing long math in your head is impractical.

          • DON

            thats what you think. not for us

          • Read what Marina Ratner professor emerita of mathematics at Berkley University says on Common Core. http://online.wsj.com/articles/marina-ratner-making-math-education-even-worse-1407283282

            And R. James Milgram a professor emeritus of mathematics at
            Stanford University who served on the validation committee for the Common Core mathematics, but he would not agree to validate the standards. Here are some links to what he has to say…

            http://dianeravitch.net/2013/09/11/james-milgram-on-the-common-core-math-standards/
            http://hoosiersagainstcommoncore.com/dr-james-milgrams-open-letter-hoosiers/
            http://whatiscommoncore.wordpress.com/tag/james-milgram/

            And 5 others who were memebers of the Common Core
            Validation Committee refused to Validate the standards. Also at the end of the article there are a variety of reference links you should read them. http://www.hslda.org/commoncore/topic12.aspx

          • Jean Townsend

            Tamara and Allyson. I learned estimation early on in math, simple and straight forward, not all this BS! I still use estimation to quickly reach a conclusion to a number situation. However, my teachers always emphasized that estimates are simply that, close to the right answer but not the 100% correct answer! Don’t want the navigator on a ship or space shuttle estimating the flight pattern of any vehicle I’m riding in! Of course, we’re not going to determine the solution to the problem of common whore, oops common core, by responding to these posts. Like so many other educational experiments, it will pass away and the tried and true methods will take its place.

          • tiorbinist

            “carrying numbers when you are doing long math in your head is impractical”
            And yet, it has been the mainstay of mathematics since the Banks of Florence decided to replace the system of Roman Numerals and bean-counting boards with Arabic numerals and that all-important zero.

            What you are saying is that counting (used for thousands of years without anyone managing to figure out that the orbits of planets weren’t circular) trumps algebra and calculus.

            Isn’t it odd that we got to the moon on carrying borrows in our heads and slide rules which required calculating powers of ten in our heads, but now engineers can’t design without calculators and computers, and NASA’s best even bounce delicate instruments off near planets because they can’t handle inter-department communications about units?

            If it is impractical to do carries in your head for long math, use that piece of paper you are already using to draw pretty pictures and do the long math on that. You can do a lot more long math on the same page as number-line pictures.

          • DON

            math is an exact number, estimation is just a branch of it.

          • linda

            Not true five sticks and five sticks equals ten sticks. That’s simple.
            Of course we were taught how we arrived at the answer. I still remember this. I don’t think I would’ve ever remembered the common core way.

          • twitch g

            the answer is right there you arrived at 10 by adding 5 plus 5

          • Jean Townsend

            This is not learning or understanding a process! This is complicating the math. So how does CC explain 1 + 1? Do they do in 10ths or 100s? I mean if I have one apple and Johnny gives me one apple just how complicated it is to say, “Hey, I now have 2 apples!” Anyone who is in to math knows it’s not just memorization, but rationalization as well, but we start out learning those basic facts like 1+1 = 2, and 2 x 10 = 20, because math is a subject that you have to “get” from the rudimentary steps and you build on it as you advance to higher math.

          • tiorbinist

            This is an incomplete presentation of three things:
            -the idea that you don’t need to memorize anything but concepts
            -the idea that memorizing facts is Bad (a direct transfer out of the social ‘sciences’ where individual actions and decisions are discounted in favor of statistical norms)
            -the idea that once you have come to an understanding beyond simple tallying, you must repeatedly prove and re-prove each concept, as if 5+5 will some day capriciously =11 if you don’t watch it like a hawk.

            It is an amazing statement about the human intellect that the academics have become so afraid of the loss of the core concepts on abstract math that they are constructing stumbling blocks for the next generation to ensure that they cannot develop a sense of practical math, and won’t be any more of a danger than the Barbie Doll they hate which says “Math is hard!”

          • DON

            somebody told you? somebody has to tell you?..you cant possibly find out by testing it your self/self check like counting your fingers one-by-one? hello?

          • DON

            Use your ten fingers?

          • gloopey1

            I attended school in the 70s and 80s and was never taught anything like this. I disagree that memorization is an ineffective way of learning – that is how most of it takes place. For example, how do you know that the Leaning Tower is in Italy? You were told that by a teacher and had to remember it. Years later, you still know this.

            What happens if someone else comes along later and decides that another complicated process is supposedly even better? Then, Common Core becomes ineffective when the next generation attempts to help the one after it.

            Where I work, someone is always trying to reinvent the wheel. At the end of the day, all they accomplish is making the same process more complex and labor intensive.

          • Izzy Ward

            I learned about the Leaning Tower of Pisa through making connections. We discussed why it was leaning, how it manages to stay up, and even common misconceptions, like how kids might think of it as the Leaning Tower of Pizza.

            Just the same, I think it is important to make connections between mathematics, outside contexts, and personal experiences. Let’s teach kids practical mathematics, not just drill-and-practice with a couple of “word problems”. As a tutor and a pre-service teacher in a state that is removing Common Core, I still want kids to be able to understand and explain mathematics to others who might approach problems differently. And I most definitely do not want my students to hate math simply because it is uninteresting and cryptic, which is the way many of my high school classmates felt with the old teaching methods.

          • Jean Townsend

            So, Izzy, you believe that teaching mathematics using common core, really makes it more interesting? I always loved math, and had I had to learn this method, I wouldn’t have like it at all. Because, you see, to me the beauty of math is coming to a correct conclusion using practical steps that lead us to that conclusion, not a 30 or 40 step process that gets me the same answer as a simple 4 or 5 step process. Fun, my ass!

          • Allyson Newton

            I have yet to see any CC math problem with 30-40 steps, or anywhere close. The ones I see (as a math tutor) have the same number of steps as the old way, or just 1 or 2 more in the interest of understanding the concept.

          • tiorbinist

            Indeed?
            The problem presented requiredJack to:
            -draw a number line
            -Mark a starting point
            -identify the number to be subtracted from
            -write that number on the line (427)
            -identify the 100’s number to subtract (3)
            -draw the heavy line to the left
            -calculate (427-100=) 327
            -Mark the point and label it with 327
            -repeat the thick line drawing, label with result of another calculation (327-100=) 227 [three steps]
            -repeat the line and calculation again for 127 [three steps]
            -Make the mistake (or, preferably not make the mistake and identify the 10’s digit to subtract Once, four steps) and misidentify the ones digit to subtract (18 steps) making 22 steps if done right, 18 steps when done as Jack has done)
            -draw a rectangle around the answer so the teacher knows where jack stopped.

            This makes a total of 36 or 40 steps of mixed visual and calculation steps, with the complexity maximized on the visual side at the expense of mathematical operations never rising above “subtract one”.

            The mother’s approach:
            -identify the number to be subtracted from
            -write it neatly
            -identify the number to subtract from it
            -write it neatly under the first number, aligning the digits by multitude.
            -draw a line under the second number
            -subtract 6 from 7 =1
            -write it under the horizontal line, aligned with the ones in the numbers above the line
            -subtract the numbers in the next column to the left, 2-1 =1
            -write it under the horizontal line, aligned to the tens column
            -subtract the numbers in the next column to the left, 4-3=1
            -write this number under the horizontal line, aligned with the hundreds column.

            Ten steps: no need to draw a pretty square around the answer so Teach doesn’t have to search for it, its position under that horizontal line does it all.

            Additionally, checking the work requires fewer steps: add the numbers in each column that are on either side of the line and compare to the top number, three operations requiring no writing at all.

            So even the example provided here makes it clear that the number line approach requires more than thirty steps while the long subtraction approach requires far less steps, and provides a quick and simple-to-apprehend check on the work.

            How can Jack have checked his work? Would he have to draw a second line and populate it with addition steps to climb from his wrong answer up, to find that his check provides a final number that is larger than he started, then another subtraction line to discover just how large, so he might analyze his first time line for mistakes? With long subtraction, he’d know he had the wrong answer on his check of the ones column, or at least be signaled that his sloppy digit alignment was the culprit.

            What, exactly will Jack do when he comes to multiplication? How will he handle division?

            Somehow, I just know that by that stage, Jack will be dependent on a calculator, not to check his work nor add refinement to his first-order estimation, but to calculate his answer, in which he will believe with the fervor of a cult-member.

          • phred01

            Very well put. Thnx.

          • Christopher Sine

            Your degree is completely irrelevant. This number line and the query that goes with it do not contain enough information to arrive at an answer. I do not see where it details the answer that “Jack” arrived at. There are not enough points on the provided number line to arrive at an answer. I remember number lines, but I don’t remember number lines that contained unequal spaces. Number lines, to my memory, were used more to illustrate fractions and irrational numbers. This is completely moronic. There is absolutely no need to use a confusing question and equally confusing number line to teach children how to subtract.

          • Atl Atl

            lu·di·crous

          • mooreworld

            I cringe to think how they could relate this to fractional math or abstractions.

          • I went to grade school in the 60s and never used a number line. Neither did older nor younger siblings in the earlier 60s and 70s. We were taught the standard methods of arithmetic.

            And there is nothing in the Common Core State Standards that requires students to use number lines to perform multi-digit subtraction. In fact, standard 4.NBT.B.4 requires students to “Fluently add and subtract multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm”.

          • Mike T.

            Seriously? in mid 90’s we were taught how to subtract! Not place dots on a number line….

          • phred01

            why should she follow your ‘framework’ if the child is learning and progressing. Being a liberal, everybody has to think like you or they are evil.

          • Jeffrey Wellman

            No Allyson, normal people of average intelligence do not need to use this number line method. Simple math is just that, simple. There is no need to use these strange ways, although they do arrive to the correct answer, to complicate a very simple math problem!

          • Tamara Piccard

            The number line is only one example of core mathematics. it is the rudimentary example, in fact. It is only complicated to you because you do not understand it. This is a “who moved my cheese” moment for the US and we need to just relax. Remember how awful it seemed to learn the metric system? Or when we changed programming languages umpteen times. It’s just a new way of looking at an old problem and I cant understand why everyone is so upset. It’s the kids learning it – not you. No one asked you to retake your SAT’s so quit fretting about it. Worry more that these kids STAY in school and don’t end up on the streets.

          • DON

            we are worried for them, because our own system works just fine. And it still do.

          • HatManAtLarge

            We, needs to be capitalized. There should be a comma after fine, and be completed “and it still does.” Yes, our system works just fine.

          • Jean Townsend

            Mr. Hat, why don’t you learn manners and stop correcting people. We understand what the writer means! Just how many novels have you written?

          • Allyson Newton

            Obviously not, because you went through it and still can’t understand this simple math problem or use proper capitalization or sentence structure.

          • Jeffrey Wellman

            Thank God I do not have children in school that have to learn this idiotic method. It does not teach most of them math and I will not stand for the liberals dumbing down everything to the lowest common denominator (I bet that is a term that is not taught under common core also, because saying lowest would be offensive to someone). As for the metric system, well that was also a very easy system to learn but again the liberals found a way to make it not make sense and that movement failed and America was left behind the rest of the world. But I do agree that many children do have an issue with learning math and maybe those children should be sent to a special math class that teaches this method, but to make all go through the special math when they already understand it not a coherent idea. Liberals need to understand that just because they find things confusing or can not understand something that it does mean all of mankind has the same issue!

          • Tamara Pickhardt

            I apologize as I don’t see how it is either a liberal or conservative issue. It is mathematics and methodology. Can we keep it factual and respectful as a debate or will you continue to speak of me even though you do not know my background?

          • tiorbinist

            You are right that it is not a liberal or conservative issue. It is a progressivism issue.
            If you really care to see what the issue is, Google Charlotte Iserbyte and find out why education is being changed, and “progress” is so much more important to both parties than the ideologies from which their party names are derived.

          • Debbie DiFrancesco

            sadly when changing things such as this, and old school mom’s get angered when they can’t help there child…. I say keep it simple stupid … it worked in our day, why change what wasn’t broken….

          • mooreworld

            Have we really changed programming languages? somewhere around 80 % of all the code running out there is COBOL……..a language that was written in 1959 based on a language written by Grace Hopper

          • Jean Townsend

            You’re wrong Ms. Piccard. WE must learn this NEW crap, because, as parents, we want to be able to work with our children and help them understand their assignments! Is not a new way to look at an old problem – it’s an insane way that makes no sense for simple math. If our children are frustrated, do you really think this kind of reasoning will keep them in school? I’m so glad Texas kicked out common core!

          • tiorbinist

            Tamara Pickard, the number line is used in math courses for about five minutes, when negative numbers are introduced, and less time as part of the “this is what you have learned” in the Pre-Algebra course.

            The reason Common Core math uses the number line so heavily is not because it is useful, but because it takes “less effort” to use…and the problem presented on this test actually shows why doing math on a number line without _first_ understanding the math is a bad thing.

            Can you actually explain why the problem’s hypothetical student got the wrong answer? Bypassing the mother’s answer, and focusing on the problem, as presented?

            Give it a look before continuing this post, please.

            The problem asks why the student in the problem got the wrong answer. The illustration shows him counting backwards by hundreds, then tens…but he counts the tens using the ones count so he actually subtracts 370. There are no safeguards in a number line, no focus on subtracting like magnitudes, so counting tens with the ones digit is an easy error to make.

            When I was taught (and when I taught my own kids) subtraction, we were shown long subtraction because it emphasized lining magnitudes up vertically. Neatness counted: if you didn’t align the numbers properly, you got the wrong answer, and anyone looking at your work could see, from how you wrote down the numbers, where you went wrong.

            Using the number line in this fashion encourages mistakes. The problem’s student has little chance of discovering his own mistake: only after he has come up with the wrong answer and the teacher (working from the Common Core materials) has identified it as wrong will the student have a reason to doubt their mechanistically-derived answer, and even then he will have to analyze his work the same way the student taking the test would… And since his answer “looks” right (right size, right number of digits, number line drawn properly, each marked motion resulting in the same counting results) it is entirely possible that the only result of the solve-problem-get-wrong-answer-get told-it’s-wrong-try-to-tell-why cycle will be loss of self-esteem and reinforcement of improper use of the tool.

            This is what you are defending. If you actually did take a serious look at the problem and couldn’t figure it out on your own, consider that you are considerably more experienced than the children who are being forced through this process.

          • Karen Richmond Brzezicki

            No, In math, Algebra, college physics…I solved euations. This is simple subtraction made unnecessarily VERY complicated. her point is that as an educated woman, the simple math was baster died to be overly complex and difficult to understand and lacks any applicable use outside the assignment.

          • DON

            NO, we have a so called arithmetic..unless you dont know what I’m talking about, then you are a waste of time as well

          • DON

            no i didnt. we use our fingers or drawings of things, animals, figures etc until i understood the numbers are the same…easy money isnt it. only If a kid is studying.

          • toadUso

            One could consider the practice taken to do many things – from riding a bike to brain surgery – a waste of time when compared to the use of the final skill. One small piece of the practice and development of understanding numbers is all this assignment is. When kids can’t count back change, it’s because they only know the “old” way. So decide. Do you want kids to learn to do math in their heads and think on their feet without technology or paper/pencil, or not?

          • DON

            the “old” way you are talking about are the fundamentals of math. You will have a hard time going to the next levels by not at least understanding if not mastering the principles of the fundamentals. Clearly your different way to do it pushes you further from understanding it. More confusing and less interest in “dealing” with it.

          • K. Martinez

            It’s a different way to think about it that is more flexible and useful then just memorizing a recipe.

          • DefiantDeity

            Recipes change and there are many recipes for the same dish. Math does not change and 5+5 will always be 10. Nothing wrong with memorizing because the answer will NEVER change. The important part is understanding why it is 10 and this CC junk doesn’t teach that. CC is for the morons in society and since you seem to advocate for it…… It is no use because I don’t have crayons or pictures to help you CC students understand how dumb your post are.

          • DON

            good luck with your different way.

          • TxChristopher

            If they are teaching this way now then it explains why intelligence in this country is dropping so quickly.

          • bringbackobjectivity

            Allyson…. With your explanation who just proved the point of the mother and every one else who thinks “Common Core” is ludicrous. This is nothing more than some math winnie in California in a publish or parish situation hoping to get his/her tenured job. If it is so good, why are school systems all over the country are dropping common core? It’s an abomination.

          • Amber Cooper

            THe only problem is, the number line in the picture is actually incorrect and the answer of “121” is, in fact, wrong. I get how the number line works and how this common core stuff works, but the number line in the illustration should at least be correct to teach the point. (Subtract three 100s, then one 10 and, finally, six 1s. This has either Subtract three 100s, and then six ones, or three 100s one 10 and five ones, or three 100s and six 10s. NONE of those possibilities give you the correct outcome.)

          • Allyson Newton

            The point of the problem is that the number line is incorrect.

          • A Parsons

            It looks as though the “frustrated parent” completed the number line. She wrote the numbers on it incorrectly. I can see her frustration in trying to complete the problem when she didn’t get the first part correct. If students don’t understand basic concepts of how numbers work. They will never understand mathematical algorithms. I have worked with many students who have no idea why they are regrouping (or “borrowing” and “carrying” for the older generation). Students learn in a variety of ways. Some are able to “hear” it. Others need to visualize it….maybe in a picture, maybe in an algorithm. Some students need to sing about a concept to understand it. Teaching math this way is helping to reach out to all the different learners. If you have never read “The Blueberry Story” please do…whether or not it is true it really helps to illustrate what is happening in our schools. http://www.jamievollmer.com/pdf/blueberry-story.pdf

          • Jean Townsend

            How about, “Jack’s answer is incorrect. Find the correct answer.” Just how frigging hard is that?

          • tiorbinist

            If you had red the mother’s response, you would understand that her complaint is that Jack’s number line is wrong, and the wrong tool for the problem.

            And since the right tool has existed for a very long time, she objects to her children being forced to learn the wrong tool for the job.

            It’s not that hard to follow.

          • Jean Townsend

            It took you 116 words to explain this simple mathematic problem. That is in no way beneficial to anyone. I took lots of advanced mathematics and never, never, used a number line and absolutely never solved a simple problem in that manner. You know what’s stupid is the idea that that kind of convulted reasoning is actually increasing the intelligence of our children! I’m sure Einstein would have liked to grapple with common core!

          • Allyson Newton

            Einstein actually would have benefited from CC. Under CC, his diverse learning style would have been more widely accepted and accommodated. Maybe then his teachers wouldn’t have labeled him as a dunce or told him he wouldn’t amount to much; instead, they would have been better equipped to teach him.

            Also, I wonder how long it took you to count my words. Isn’t that a bigger waste of time than what you’re claiming the CC problem is?

          • Jean Townsend

            Perhaps you’ve forgotten that MS Word counts words and characters! A simple copy paste is all it took. I doubt that having common core methodologies in place would have changed anyone’s view of Einstein! The methodology has nothing to do with intelligence, but does have everything to do with wether we can grasp facts and learn “how” to approach a mathematical formula. Everyone learns differently. Common Core, like Situational Ethics will go by the wayside when educators discover it’s not profiting the students or enhancing their ability to grasp facts, and the fact that it takes about triple the time to get a problem worked (not necessarily solved) cuts into the precious time teachers have to assist students who are struggling with learning such an ignoramous approach on how to add 10 + 10. If a problem is scored higher on “how” one gets to the answer and the primary goal is to not get a right answer but just learn the method, then I wouldn’t want that student to be responsible in the future for designing and building an airplane, or a nuclear power plant! Scary thought that being correct is not the goal. How about a heart doctor following the methodology for heart surgery, but not fixing the problem with the heart. “Sorry folks, but I followed the procedures to the “t”, the surgery was broken down into the correct components, but when it came to actually getting the heart problem solved, it just didn’t work, but you can’t fault my methods.!

          • Allyson Newton

            For 10 + 10, CC would add the tens place and get 2, and the ones place and get 0. 20. Seems horribly complicated, right?

            I grew up under NCLB, which your party set up. It was a nightmare. And guess what? Under it, our math assignments were graded mostly for methodology. If it was clear that we knew the method, but had a little hiccup along the way, we got partial credit for the answer – it was still considered “right”, just not 100% right.

            State frameworks often require that a student be proficient in certain methodologies, and it has been that way for YEARS. This means that yes, there IS a requirement, and yes, a student DOES have to prove they can use all methods to solve the problem. If you think that is a new CC development, you are sadly mistaken.

            The current system is NCLB, whether anybody wants to admit it or not. If you want to talk about wasting a teacher’s time, NCLB is the worst. We missed countless English classes for these standardized mini tests that were written poorly and took the whole class period. We often joked and said that NCLB was really NCLU – No Child Left Untested. CC also requires some testing, but unlike NCLB, it has procedures in place to actually be able to FIX the problems that the tests show, which NCLB didn’t touch.

            I certainly did not see this kind of outrage when NCLB was enacted, though they are very similar. I’ll admit, they have some differences (like CC being much more practical and actually addressing the issues student have). Perhaps there is outrage over CC because it wasn’t a Republican who came up with it?

          • Glenn Griffith

            Or you subtract 1 from 2 and tack on the 00’s like a normal human being.

          • AVB2

            There is a fundamental problem with the entire concept that nobody seems to notice. The problem does not teach how the math was wrong. It isn’t using number lines to teach math. It’s using math to teach number lines. This will not help Jack anywhere in the real world and his mother is pissed off that her taxes are teaching this nonsense. She wants what any mother wants. She wants her son to be successful in life.

          • K. Martinez

            The number line is to illustrate the thinking. It’s not supposed to be used forever, just until the kid internalizes the idea. Like subtracting 111 from 555, you can think of it as subtracting 100, then 10, then 1…they call it partial differences and it’s a more flexible way of thinking and faster in many cases.

          • TacticalYoda

            Are ou for real? If I ask you the color of the sky and will only accept “green” as the answer, whom will you need to ask for “help” to appease my BS agenda?

          • Allyson Newton

            One small problem with your statement…

            This teacher was looking for the right answer.

          • DON

            are you sure?

          • JohnnyJimmyJuJu

            You are truly a moron…..

          • Neil08

            Resorting to personal abuse is the clearest way of signaling you lost the argument. You’ve embarrassed yourself mate.

          • JohnnyJimmyJuJu

            You’re an idiot also…….

          • Kim Cocciolillo

            Oh my! I think my response flew right over your head!

          • Thomas Adams

            You don’t write a note like this you speak to the teacher to get a better understanding of the issue and help your child understand this response is not going to help your child succeed it will only teach them to get upset when you don’t understand something and lash out.. witch is one of our problems in the country now

          • Carmen Dunlow

            that is the whole thing he did ask for help so in other words he did what you would call “doing the right thing by asking for help” I have never used a number line and I have four kids and the youngest three are the only ones who brought home number lines I for one don’t think that they help in any way but I do know that they are trying different ways to teach children basic simple math. With the no child left behind in affect they need new ways to do math. Basically breaking everything down what use to take only 2-3 steps will take 20-30 steps for easier understanding but what the mother did I think is reasonable for I HAVE done the same thing for my younger children. My daughter who is now in high school had to break down addition and wasn’t able to get the right answer breaking it down but was able to get the correct answer by doing it the “old” way and got an F on her test because she didn’t have the steps down I don’t call that fair. I feel teach the children any way you feel but if they feel that doing it one way then what they were taught and still get the right answer then why be so upset. But lets get back to the point the mother didn’t understand it and neither did the son and he asked for help from his mother apparently then he did the RIGHT thing. I think I have made my point

          • DON

            exactly the point..use your own, we’ll use ours,…dont force us and to our kids to use yours.

          • Allyson Newton

            If she didn’t understand it, why didn’t she go to the teacher?

          • Allyson Newton

            I also have yet to see a problem with 2-3 steps that has been stretched out to 20-30 steps, anyway. Can you give me an example?

          • Jean Townsend

            Point exactly. If getting the right answer isn’t the goal of math, then I surely do pity the outcome of our defense department, building of air planes and buildings, etc. How about a bomb or a nuclear power plant? Can you imagine this scenario? “Don’t worry about if the measurements are correct or if the formula is correct, just be sure you show all the steps properly!” Scary thought that our kids aren’t expected to get the right answer.

          • phred01

            She has a right to teach here child the simplest way of a achieving the answer.Why should she be vilified for not wanting her child to be dumbed down by a socialist way of making everyone the same. North Korea is bland, without creativity, just like this countries’ socialists want us to be.

          • DON

            she is more than welcome to do that, but to mandate that to the whole school system funded by tax payers is a waste.

          • linda

            Do you understand Common core Mathematics?

          • John

            There is a small point I want to make on this. In a college level, rather than where I work (Public school)
            My sister is going to college. She is taking math and was given a problem. She got stuck in a portion of it.
            When she asked for aid, rather than explaining hat she was missing on that part, the teacher re-wrote the problem and walked away. Nothing changed in the problem where my sister had the issue. So she was stuck with the issue. She had to go to another math class and ask the teacher there what she was missing. He then explained it to her, and she got it.

            Something is wrong with that. And it is even more prevalent in public school as well. (I know…I work in one) When I see how they have to do math, vs how I was taught to do the same problem…I can easily see why they do not get it. And the teachers….(Not all, but some) do not seem to even care to help. Point is, a lot of times help is asked for, but it is not given or given right. Just the way I feel from what I have seen myself and heard.

          • John

            Probably why I am more popular with them over their teachers…with being more strict with them than the teachers as well.
            I pay attention to them
            I try to help them in any way I can.

          • TacticalYoda

            “I’m just pointing out that this mom is doing more harm than good for her child when she writes this stuff on his work and makes him turn it in.” Is the common core answer for:
            I’m a liberal and will not stray from the herd and think for myself”

          • Allyson Newton

            Actually, I do think for myself. If you’ll notice, you guys seem to be the proverbial “herd” here. Also, my arguments have been respectfully written out, and I haven’t had to attack anyone’s character because I didn’t have enough logic to state my position in a way that makes sense, though I have had mine attacked several times. It seems as though I’m the one who is thinking here, while others are simply hurling insults my way.

            Oh, and you calling me a liberal does not offend me. I’m quite proud of it, actually.

          • JohnnyJimmyJuJu

            Liberal?? You’re an idiot.

          • DON

            and you already assumed we are not thinking as well?

          • DON

            “doing more harm than good”?….less than 5 seconds to do the math…are you that stupid

          • Allyson Newton

            That kid can’t do the math in 5 seconds. That kid doesn’t know ANY METHOD of subtraction. Therefore, he would need the same amount of instruction to do the problem the old way. Which means it would take much longer to solve the problem.

            And, let’s point out that the mom didn’t even answer the question. The problem was two-fold. You had to identify Jack’s error, then write a letter to him telling him what he could have done different. Nowhere did it say that you had to do the subtraction problem like that.

          • DON

            yes the kid can do the math in 5 seconds IF there is a FATHER or MOTHER to help him/her understand it. Not the government

          • Allyson Newton

            And, I would greatly appreciate it if you did not call me stupid. I am not stupid, and I don’t think that you are either, despite the fact that I disagree with you. Please try to keep your responses to me as respectful and mature as possible.

          • CPSmurf

            I must say Allyson, you have more patience than I do with some of these people.

          • Allyson Newton

            For some reason I thought I might have been joining a discussion where folks were respectful.. oh, how blissfully wrong I was.

            I don’t understand how my disagreeing with the group here warrants the name calling that is going on. So, because I think differently, I’m automatically “not of average intelligence”, or “not bright”, or “a complete moron”, or “truly an idiot”?

            Interestingly enough, though, the only real argument I’m hearing against CC from this board is simple:

            Folks don’t like it because it’s not how they were taught.

          • CPSmurf

            “Folks don’t like it because it’s not how they were taught.”

            Exactly.

          • DON

            you should have known from the get go this discussion board has no rules. they can post whatever they want. If you cant stand the heat, you know where to go.

          • Allyson Newton

            Don, you have been commenting on every single one of my posts for two days. Not a single one of your comments have been deleted, because you enjoy free speech on this message board, no matter how rude or hurtful your comments are. However, you cannot claim that this board has no rules. Several of my respectfully dissonant comments have been deleted, and for what? I am disagreeing in a mature, healthy manner, and my freedom to post what I want here has been compromised. I have no interest in talking to people who will delete my comments in an effort to silence me simply because I have a different viewpoint than they do. That, Sir, is no different than censorship in a communist society.
            If you are willing to have a respectful discussion, I will talk. Until then, I will not indulge you, or the others who seek to censor me despite my respectability, with conversation.

          • DON

            you are barking at the wrong tree Allyson..I did not delete your post. Otherwise I will be violating your freedom to express

          • Allyson Newton

            I see that my response here has been deleted, as well. If you guys weren’t threatened by my statements, why would you be deleting them?

          • Allyson your posts weren’t deleted they just don’t show up for you occasionally, but they do show up for whomever you are replying to, some of mine don’t either, it’s a glitch. Go to your disqus profile and look and each of your comments will show and you can right click the time it was posted and it will bring up the comment, or start at the top of the discussion you are involved in and go through the comments.

          • DON

            sh’t the f!k up

          • linda

            Did you learn by common core

          • Allyson Newton

            No. I grew up during No Child Left Behind, which your people set up.

          • DON

            what do you mean “your people”? You are not one of us?

          • Allyson Newton

            Oh, I see. You thought I was putting liberals down. Sir, I am a liberal. My response was to a comment that suggested that all high school dropouts require government assistance, and are democrat voters… which I was saying is not true.

          • DON

            that means you are not really paying attention

          • Carola Dryden

            Allyson, I am not a Liberal and I don’t like common core but I want to commend you on how well you have handled yourself in this discussion. You have held your own very well and in a mature, level headed manner. You have not treated anyone disrespectfully as so many of these people do. Keep it up.

          • Allyson Newton

            Thank you very much. All I have asked for from the start is a respectful discussion.

          • K. Martinez

            If there was a like button. I would hit for your contribution.

          • I.m. Strandedinsonoma

            How PATRIOTIC [is it] to hide money to avoid American taxes or move your HQ’s offshore to avoid taxes?

            Actually, it is quite patriotic.

            Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes. Helvering v. Gregory, 69 F.2d 809, 810-11 (2d Cir. 1934). — Judge Learned Hand

          • No, not being ‘not patriotic’ doesn’t make you patriotic.

            And you forgot some of Hands words. The tax avoiders lost at the appellate and SCOTUS level:

            The purpose of the section is plain enough, men engaged in enterprises … might wish to consolidate … their holdings. … But the underlying presupposition is plain that the readjustment shall be undertaken for reasons germane to the conduct of the venture in hand…. To dodge the shareholders’ taxes is not one of the transactions contemplated as corporate “reorganizations.”

          • Randy Underwood

            H A T E R lol. One only needs to look at the evidence, I odnt have to be right, the evidence speaks for itself. Federal Government get involved in education, and our education system goes to hell. Go ahead with some lofty explanation, I will get back to work to pay for more free loaders.

          • zappa24

            The Common Core was not developed by the federal government. It was developed by experts in education under the direction of a group of governors. This is being directed from the state level, not the federal level.

          • DON

            dang! you do believe they are experts. seriously?

          • gloopey1

            Jesus taught Christians to help others, not governments. Both the left and right have created huge budget deficits around the country. Just consider California’s economic mess.

            The topic of discussion, which you and others have deviated from, is Common Core. I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I see the benefits of teaching young people to think “outside the box,” but I fear that it is too complicated for the average family to work through.

            The greatest ideas on earth are lost if they are not teachable. Common Core’s Achille’s heel is that few understand it well enough to teach it effectively.

          • sidweiss

            you live in a fantasy world. people who do well in school and work hard and grasp onto opportunity will always do well but kids who scre w off in school and develop a bad attitude will struggle in life. if your in school and your 17 and have a baby chances are you will struggle in life. its almost a definite. yes ditch digging is hard work and physically demanding but more than likely the ditch digger didn’t do well or because they were in a liberal public school in an urban area and you lived life waiting for the promises of the democratic party to come to fruition, well u made a huge mistake in waiting for them to fix your life. equal pay is great. you will never ever have to work hard because if u work harder than you counter part you will never get a raise unless your counter part does this production will go down and more jobs will move to countries that do not practice this crap. look what liberals did to detroit. the greedy unions strong arming companies to pay 80 bucks per hour. well no u have zero per hour. your ideals are good but they do not work in the real world. are there some that fall behind dude to no fault of their own, yes there are but thats no reason to make a one size fits all system. look at central america. they tried this crap and look at them now. they risk their lives to get here. look at Venezuela they know import their oil. now i know there are some americans who think america can do socialism better but it doesn’t work any where in the entire world but yet the left keeps pushing this crap through incrementlist ways. one day we will wake up and see what the lefts policies have done but when that happens and we are a basket case people like u on the left will blame the greedy corporations while the people in other countries get the jobs

          • andrea

            You so got Allyson Newton’s message wrong.

          • Carola Dryden

            I don’t think that any Republican is at a loss to say what they don’t like about the Democratic party any more than any Democrat is at a loss to say what they don’t like about the Republican party. The fact of the matter is, for the most part Repubs and Dems want the same thing, they mainly disagree about how to get those things. Granted there are some differences such as right to life, as an example, but essentially we all want the same thing. The sad thing here is that you sound so like most other Democrats in these online discussions. Your rude, condescending and think your smarter then the average guy.

          • Southern boy

            Phill what most conservatives want is access for everyone a good job however we do not believe that everyone deserves a great job. If you are unwilling to put out or if you think you deserve it just because. How about education, well come to class sit down and shut up, learn from the teacher and respect those above you. It does not automatically belong to you you must earn it.

          • Kenneth Paul

            that’s in the past what about now? are you living in the past or in the now? comparison of history does nothing good for the now… have i said now enough?

          • Charlie D Evans Jr.

            You are so full of crap.

          • heather

            Haha….Two liberals fighting because one can’t read punctuation 🙂 What a riot! Some people love arguing so much they argue with people who believe the same way they do! Lol….idiots.

          • Jean Townsend

            Allyson, unfortunately, you prejudice yourself against anyone who is conservative. Not all conservatives are wealthy. There are many wealthy liberals – look at Hollywood. Look at the multi-millionaires and billionaires that vote Democrat! So, if we all (libs and conservatives) truly want fairness, then all of us need to get in line and vote for candidates that support the issues that you write about REGARDLESS of their party affliation. But as we know, the past two elections for President have been based solely on race and what the so-called most open and transparent administration promised the low-information voters. Do you really believe most liberals want what you’re talking about? Maybe, but will they vote for it? No, because they are voting along party lines regardless of the philosophy of the candidates, their record, or their actions. What libs want in this country is a one-party system – them only – so that THEY can tell the rest of us how to live our lives, what to eat, what to learn in school, and more, more, more government regulation! The libs truly want to be a ruling party with control of the wealth of this nation – share the wealth? That’s BS, because the wealth would be held by an elite few who didn’t earn the wealth and they would decide what you and I deserve – our 40 acres and a mule! Open your eyes, lady. There is corruption on both sides of the aisle.

          • Jdawg Laurence

            Lol Phil how dumb are you? Can’t tell the most obvious internet sarcasm the world has ever seen?

          • Leigh306

            You were preaching to the choir because Allyson was being sarcastic.

          • Screw You

            I know his is old, but Phil Grove, you are an idiot! maybe you should go back to school and learn some reading comprehension so you can actually understand what you are reading. Your entire rant has nothing to do with what Allyson Newton said. If you were as smart as you think you are you would have noticed that she was asking a question not stating a fact!

          • Amy tivey

            My nephew is a high school graduate votes republican and is on public assistance. Bows your theory

          • jtom

            That high school dropouts vote Democrat and are on public assistance does not mean that all people on public assistance are high school drop outs who vote Democrat. All thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs.

          • Amy tivey

            Just responding to what you said.

          • Amy tivey

            Just responding to what you said.

          • Allyson Newton

            Yes. I was pointing out how preposterous the original poster’s comment was. My apologies, apparently my sarcasm does not translate online.

          • Amy tivey

            Allyson, you are fine. It’s the other people who are posting who just don’t understand what the goal of common core is and how those goals are achieved. Not everything can be solved so simply. Students need to wrap their brain around different methods as if one is going to help solve the worlds problems, they need to understand their are multiple ways of doing that. Look outside the box. Sarcasm is fine, the insults that flow are not necessary to discuss the topic. This is not a “liberal” issue.

          • Allyson Newton

            People definitely don’t understand it. And as is clearly demonstrated here, they never will, because some of them will simply throw insults at those who disagree with them rather than listen and think that someone may know better than them.
            It’s frustrating to try and explain such things to folks who just want to call you “stupid”, “idiot”, or tell you that “you can ask your baby daddies – if you even know who they are” when you ask them to back up their claims. One lady even said, “go back to your parents basement, little girl!” at the end of a comment that made no sense.

            Now how can we make progress if people aren’t willing to listen?

          • Amy tivey

            If I had the answer to that one, we’d have world peace :). Going to a common core panel discussion in our district on Monday. Should be enlightening.

          • DON

            making students dumber is not a sign of progress Allyson. who says we are not listening. like any educated being not anything you hear or read from people who claimed to be experts are true and reliable.

          • JohnnyJimmyJuJu

            You’re another idiot.

          • Amy tivey

            Jimmy, how is calling me an idiot productive in this discussion. If in your job, you used high level math, you would understand this. If you don’t use math in your job, you are school, and don’t want to think out of the box, then you probably won’t understand this. Name calling is not productive. You can disagree.

          • Karen Richmond Brzezicki

            I do use high level math. I left social work due to burn out and became a firefighter/paramedic. My dosages and drip rates have to be accurate at 3 AM. My simple math is accurate and very fast. I also have to calculate gallonage vs friction loss based on the size and length of hose laid while a house is on fire. Trust me, my simple math is much quicker than a number line…and my accuracy assures my crew gets the correct pressure and gallon age to save lives. While I am not an enginerr, my sister and brother in law who are assure me they have difficulty understanding common core methods as well.

          • Amy tivey

            I assume that in your job you need to understand the calculations as well as make them. What happens if something happens and you have to vary your calculations. Is it always the same every single time. You have to know why you are doing what you are doing. Using a number line is not a common core method. My kids have learned how to use a number line for a variety of reasons throughout their elementary and middle school years before common core ever came into being. Common core is about standards, not about curriculum. I have no trouble understanding this method. It is not my preferred method, but I get it. Teaching every student only one way will turn off those that don’t initially get it. All kids learn differently so why do we teach them only one way. My kids my have preferred an alternative way when they were younger, but as they have gotten older are using a more traditional way.

          • zappa24

            That’s great, but there are students that struggle with the traditional “simple” method. They don’t see the reasoning behind it. The part of the Common Core that is being attacked here is the push to show multiple alternate methods (along with the traditional). The point is two fold. First, as Amy has mentioned, it is meant to show the reasoning behind the math so that students can solve problems later where the traditional method fails. Second, it is meant to give students who do struggle with the traditional methods (which there are a sizable number) other methods that they might understand better. The Common Core doesn’t even mandate which alternate methods are used, only that teachers introduce alternate methods to the class. Earlier, much of the argument was over the Common Core being “authoritarian”. In a way, the push to introduce multiple methods of problem solving is less authoritarian than the old “one size fits all” traditional method only routine.

          • DON

            then why dont you apply that specifics only to those who needed it, not the rest in the classroom who dont need it..exactly what all have been trying to say..when you push that “alternative” method to kids who dont need it, they are going to get confused and will result in a lower grades. It will require them more effort to to fully grasp what you are trying to introduce instead of them going to the next topic. A total waste of time.

          • westonb4 .

            Amy, thinking outside of the box is exactly what this student did.. He was given a math problem and expected to find the difference with a complex method. He thought outside the box and got the right answer in a much simpler manner. Hence the reason for 99% of all inventions being created….to make a task easier. Jack is indeed an outside-the-box thinker because he did not conform to a teacher’s socialistic teaching methods. And get this, he got the correct answer and was punished for it. I will ask you this- if you had to get from your parents’ basement in Southern Cali to your hipster convention in North Cali, would you want to take the 3 hour route (the straight interstate) or the 7 hour route (the curvy two lane backroads)? And here’s the kicker….the longer it takes to get there, the harder is is to find a parking spot for your Prius. So take all that into that “box,’ you’re obviously not thinking outside of, and get back with me.

          • Amy tivey

            Well normally one would take the direct route, however, if you encounter a landslide, you had better be able to think in a different manner. In this example, the parent figured it out, not the kid. The teacher wanted the child to use a number line, a different method. the parent only wanted the child to do it the most direct way. The parent could not understand why the teacher wanted the kid to use a number line. The parent is in the box. AND by the way, I don’t go to hipster conventions and am not from Cali. Also, I don’t own a prius. What has that got to do with this debate?

          • Allyson Newton

            That wasn’t my theory. I was being sarcastic. I’ll refrain from using sarcasm in an online environment.

          • Azrael

            Well obviously that is what under educated right wing morons are going to say. I’ve tried pointing out several times that, on average, people with higher IQ’s tend to vote Democrat, and thus the average IQ of a Democrat is higher than the average IQ of a Republican, but they never seem to follow the logic. I think the problem is most of the studies use a pie chart to show their findings, and they get mad that there isn’t actual pie and start throwing bibles.

          • DON

            you think you have a higher IQ than average Republicans? think again. (you’re kidding right?)

          • DON

            YES, if you are really paying attention.

          • Charlie D Evans Jr.

            Umm yes

          • AVB2

            No Allyson, you misrepresented the comment to support your indiignation. It says that high school dropouts end up on government assistance and those dropouts become democratic voters. He inferred that people living on handouts support any administration that will keep handing them free stuff. The comment does not say “always” anywhere in it and he assuredly never said all people on government assistance are droputs or democrats.

          • Allyson Newton

            Nope. I was being sarcastic… as I have stated multiple times throughout this feed.

          • owjw

            I think that’s what “they” (socialist) think…you might want to ask them if you can get a truthful answer.

          • tiorbinist

            Allyson Newton, Sorry to be answering questions with questions, but such is life.
            Do you really understand voting to equate to ‘always’?

            Only _one vote more than half of those who actually bother to vote_ is required to elect a candidate to office, if there are two candidates. If there are more candidates, it only lowers the number of people who vote for the winner. I realize this can be a hard concept. Here’s a quick example:
            On the national ballot, there can easily be five parties with a presidential candidate. So let’s presume there: Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Green, Communist. If there are 640 million people in the country, and the utopian 2.4 children per family, an even 50-50 split male and female, with 2/3 of each gender above the age of consent in family groupings and (for simplification only) no other classifications to deal with (I.e., no same-gender couplings resulting in no children, no polygamy, no orphans, nothing else that adds messy math) then:
            This population can be divided by a unit which contains 2 parents, their average 2.4 children, and one each, male and female singles. 2+2+2.4=6.4. The total 640 million has 10 million such units. Since the children are not, by definition, eligible voters, only four of each unit are eligible voters, so there are 400 million eligible voters.
            -some of them won’t bother to register, for one reason or another. (The 2012 national average was about 75% of eligible voters registered to vote). This makes the number of our eligible voters fall to 300 million, less than half the population.
            -of those who are registered, some 50% in the USA don’t bother. This means, for our hypothetical country, that a mere 150 million voters make decisions for elections which affect all 640 million citizens.

            In elections which are 2-choice, then, 75million + 1 votes makes the decision. But for our five party example, the decision is actually made _only_ by the voters who vote for the top two vote-getters: if each candidate gets exactly 1/5th of the vote, no one wins, and there has to be a run-off election. However, if the bottom three candidates each get 1/5 votes minus one, the top two will each have 1/5 votes plus a part of the three votes that the bottom three didn’t get. Which ever gets the majority of those votes (1/5th of the vote plus three, four or all five) wins.

            So how many people have to vote for the winner? 30 million and three. Out of a population of 640 million, less than 1/21of the population can decide the winner (or as much as 1/4 of the population for a landslide.)

            Maybe this doesn’t make sense to you, but it isn’t that hard to find out the real numbers for our real country. It wasn’t long ago that our population was about 640million.

            Then again, maybe this makes it easier to see how having 47% of eligible voters relying on government assistance might have a significant effect on the perpetuation of government handouts, even if only a small majority of them are Democrat voters, and Democrats promise to perpetuate the handouts.

          • K. Martinez

            The Democrat drop out black people Obamaphone conspiracy is too stupid to even spend time with.

        • David L Grabill

          it is more homeschooling

        • Jo Torrey

          Or more republican voters.

        • Greg Gougenheimen

          Interesting, since red states tend to pull more money for assistance. Maybe THAT is the agenda.

        • Emil Knight

          Actually, you’ll find more people who vote for liberal policies tend to have higher educations than those that vote conservative.

        • Dominique Storni

          Harry… you may be interested in some factual data. The facts, contrary to your Teanderthal diatribe is.. that the vast majority of under-educated folks,… vote for REPUBLICANS!!!

          Yup. Fact!

          Those with higher education vote progressively.

          • HarryTheCat

            Nope. Those who swallow vote progressively. Yup. Fact!

        • Theodore DeZorzi

          Poverty and lack of education run rampant in red states genius. Now who you blaming.

        • John

          High School drop out here.

          I don’t like your comment. It basically has labeled me in a way that is NOT true. Welcome to what a blanket comment does.
          I own my own home. Have since I was 22 (36 now)
          I have worked non stop for 20 years minus 3 months of a lay off, thanks to the Bush Admin….Republican by the way.
          I own my own car. Have also done so since I was 20.
          That 3 months that I had no work and was desperately trying to find a job. I sought 0 government aid. NONE.
          I will always survive. I have always survived. I sold my belongings for bills, and lost 20 pounds eating real light. Why did I not seek the aid?
          when people like you make these kind of comments, there is a measure of shame involved in it. I won’t have that. I will not feel the shame of going, I am sorry but I need some help. I paid taxes for x amount of years to receive it, but I feel shameful asking for it back. I never ever say anything to a person I know receiving assistance, who is struggling to just get food on the table. They are already miserable, stressed beyond belief, working as hard as they can to make it for them, and their kids. And then to have the comments I see on the internet about getting aid makes them feel worse.
          Yeah there are those who manipulate the system so they do not have to work for their earnings. I get that. But this statement above blankets every single person getting aid, and that is not right. It is not fair either.
          The insult to injury is the whole party affiliation based only one what can be perceived as your OPINION of the Democratic party. (Not a democrat either. I dislike both parties, and think they should all be removed from government. Then we start over fresh)
          Without getting too nasty lets get a NEWS FLASH going
          Not all people seeking aid are drop outs. Most have their diploma and some college to boot.
          Not all people getting aid are democrats.

          Leaving on a note of positive. A quote I live by, that just happens to have celebrated its 25th anniversary of release yesterday.

          In complete darkness we are all the same.
          It is only our KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM that separates us.
          Don’t let your eyes deceive you.
          ~Janet Jackson
          ~Rhythm Nation 1814

          Think before posting. Read it over again, to make sure you are not blanketing or talking unfairly. +Allyson Newton is a great example of intelligent conversation, and how to carry oneself on the internet.

        • preesi

          Actually its the REPUBLICANS who have high drop out rates, high divorce rates, high welfare usage, high teen pregnancy rates…
          Dems have higher college education rates and use much less welfare

        • K. Martinez

          The agenda is SMARTER KIDS who really know mathematics and can think creatively about problem solving. The kind of skill they will need as an adult. No one is going to ask someone how to multiply and carry…but they will be asked how to think of different ways to solve a problem.

      • Sam

        And if they don’t quit, they will be dumb as hell anyway. Go back to the good ole basics and not complicate it with BS……

      • K. Martinez

        Many more will stay in school because it’s much more interesting to really know math, rather than sit through another class of the teacher just droning on about the next thing you have to memorize. It makes kids think harder and their parents too.

    • copywriter111

      It reminds me of Nancy Pelozzi who’s mind is now spaghetti .

      • Sam

        I thought it was MUSH……. Or scrambled eggs!

      • Jeff Johnson

        She was infinitely more effective as house speaker than habitually drunk crybaby boner.

        • Lyndau123

          Surely you are being funny here as ANYONE with an I.Q above 4 knows Nancy Pelosi is a totally certifiable idiot, corrupt, and delusional sociopath! Sorry, I guess that leaves you out, Jeff J. I.Q too low…..

          • JJ

            It’s no use talking with him. All he knows how to do is call people vulgar names. Jeffy Johnson is the epitome of a democrat. He talks and talks and says nothing!

          • Jeff Johnson

            Kindly go suck on exhaust fumes until you choke to death now, please. Thanks.

          • JJ

            hahaha…I just can’t help but laugh you. every time i see your name on this page. I laugh uncontrollably. Explains why you aren’t married I guess. And if you have a girlfriend. Send her over, I’ll show her what its like to to be with a real man. Obviously you are doing something wrong. My 18 year old son probably gets more action than you do. You little worthless loser1

          • Jeff Johnson

            Keep chuckling, loser. That’s what everyone who’s ever been unfortunate enough to see your punitively tiny, deformed, diseased dick has done.

          • Conservative Country Boy

            Again….you must have penis envy. You sure do talk about them a lot. Probably goes hand in hand with your dishonorable discharge from the military, that you served in instead of going to prison.

          • CPSmurf

            “You little worthless loser1”

            A fine, fine Christian you are…

          • Conservative Country Boy

            Did the priest not give you enough attention when you were little smurfy? Is that why you’re so angry?

          • CPSmurf

            How’s your sister? Or as you like to call her “Mom”?

          • Lyndau123

            SAME to you! Of course you have already TRIED that a few times as you HAVE no brain cells left in you, JJ!

          • Jeff Johnson

            You’re an idiot. I’ve never aligned myself with any political party, fool.

          • Lyndau123

            So right! JJ is one f ing nasty, IDIOT, LIBTRUD!

          • Jeff Johnson

            What an idiotic comment. Lemme guess…you vote republiCON, right? Thought so. Keep that head of yours buried way up the asshole, loser.

          • Lyndau123

            Let me see. You are a LIBERTARD. Retarded to the max.

          • Jeff Johnson

            Idiot or not, she was exponentially more effective as house speaker than the habitually drunk crybaby Boner. Sorry. Facts is facts.

          • Lyndau123

            COUNT the LIES and the SEVERITY of her LIES, DufuS! NO comparison! She, along with Harry REID, have done HUGE to RUIN our nation but you have drunk too much Kool-aid and smoked far too much dope so that you have NO brain cells left in you to realize TRUTH! Please go back into your cave!

          • Conservative Country Boy

            Yeaaaaah…You have to pass it, to find out whats in it. She’s too stupid to even know how to read. Her and Harry ReidTARD

    • John Best

      Good question.

    • Mark Muylaert

      Bill Gates……..

    • Wraith Ideal

      Bill Gates … Microsoft. They want dumbed down drones for the tomorrows workforce. Look it up.

    • Nora Wilson

      … and what they were on!

    • Lyndau123

      Bill Gates and Obama’s buddies – not ONE of which was a TEACHER!

    • matteroffact

      Take me along with you Bryant, ’cause once you’re thru with them in the woodshed I would love to jump on ’em next.

    • Alichia H.

      You can thank michell Obama

    • Stephanie Kalna-Sanders

      Probably someone who has nothing to do except making the school experience for kids more boring. Bet they get paid more than I make in 3 yrs each yr.

    • flb1424
    • Kevin

      Bryant, google Common Core, Bill Gates, and McGraw Hill. Then don’t just read the articles on top. Read some of the detailed articles further down. They go into great detail about how it is all about money and basically turning our kids into stupid people. The reason the government is doing it is so citizens have to rely on the government more and more and essentially turning us into China (socialists).

    • Cheryl McMaken

      I’d be right behind you to get my turn at him. LOL

    • Amy tivey

      Hmm…bill gates for one. Are you going to take him to the woodshed? The richest man in the world. The man who started one of the most successful high tech companies?

    • Amy tivey

      Bill gates for one. Take him to the woodshed.

    • Todd Clemmer

      Bill Gates

    • Drew Simmonz

      creating more useful idiots, sadly

    • Neil08

      Ah, yes. Violence solves everything in your sad little world of fear, doesn’t it? Good luck, mate.

    • Sharon Wolfe

      I was thinking the same thing…WHO conceived this pretzel logic and for what nefarious purpose?!

    • Ricky McShane

      Bill Gates

    • Carola Dryden

      The United States Secretary of Education who is a member of the Presidents cabinet.

    • Katrina Lowe

      WHAT COMPANIES HAVE TO GAIN FROM COMMON CORE?

      You can see from the “How is it Implemented in our ‘States’?” flowchart, there are companies that will directly benefit by implementing Common Core. Some of these companies are:

      The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, pledged $150 million dollars in Grants in 2007. Bill and Melinda Gates are directly tied to the United Nations, and they will directly benefit from the software packages that are sold to train teachers in the classroom through Microsoft.

      Publishing Companies- Pearson, Scholastic News,MacGraw Hill, Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, (AZ textbooks used in Public Schools are primarily from the publisher Harcourt) etc., will benefit from Common Core because they willprovide the textbooks, for training teachers and teaching students, and curriculum changes that will need to be made to implement Common Core. Pearson, the largest on-line book company in the world, announced in their 2012 Earnings Report that “The Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers (PARCC)…awarded Pearson and Educational Testing Service (ETS) the contract to develop test items that will be part of the new English and Mathematics assessments to be administered from the 2014-2015 school year. We continued to produce strong growth in secure online testing, an important market for the future. We increased online testing volumes by more than 10%, delivering 6.5 million state accountability tests, 4.5 million constructed response items and 21 million spoken tests. We now assess oral proficiency in English, Spanish, French, Dutch, Arabic and Chinese.We also launched the Online Assessment Readiness Tool for the PARCC and the Smarter Balance Assessment Consortium (SBAC) Common Core consortia to help 45 states prepare for the transition to online assessments.”Can you say more $$$ for Pearson???

      Achieve, Inc. connections- who will benefit from Common Core? Craig Barrett is the Chairman of the Board of Directors of Achieve, Inc., he is the current Chairman for the AZ Ready Education Council; and he is a Thunderbird Faculty memberpromoting United Nation Principles. (He is also the Former CEO/Chairman of the Board of Intel). Computer companies will directly benefit from computer sales to the states and local school districts. All of the Common Core student assessment testing will now be computer based. See (Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers {PARCC} website for more details on the new student testing that will replace AIMS).

      GET INVOLVED

      If you would like toBecome a member of the “Arizonans Against Common Core” team and help us educate Arizona residents about Common Core, please e-mail Our website coordinator at AZSchoolChoice at cox.net

    • Debra Mansberry

      It is Bill and melinda Gates and they have the copy right on it.

    • Jamie

      You can thank Bill Gates…

    • It’s a shame there is no where you can find that information…. oh wait. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Core_State_Standards_Initiative

    • james hawthorn

      Bill Gates and his cronies. . . Sad

    • K. Martinez

      Common Core has a lot going for it if you take some time to understand it. It’s a different way to think about learning that turns out to me not so different. It has kids thinking mathematically, rather than just following a recipe without understanding it.

  • Ziva (Candace) McCabe

    I used to have trouble with “modern math”…SO GLAD I don’t have a child in school!
    The REAL WORLD uses “process improvements” tools and Common Core is not a process that improves a damned thing…Let’s get back to “Common Sense” instead! (Basics we all can live with!)

  • aquafuji

    brilliantly put by this mother, these libtards who made this common core probably can’t even do quantum physics, let alone basic mathso the only conclusion I can come too if they want our children to fail in school!

    • brianna bankhead

      Common core was not established so your children would fail school, it was established so that when you decide to pursue your quantum physics career and need to move to another state your child is not behind or ahead when they get to a new school, but is able to assimilate into the classroom and be able to follow curriculum.

      • MARK

        It’s not working. Wow that took a degree to surmise.

        • CPSmurf

          Oh, it’s working. It’s just that some parents haven’t a clue about it.

      • CPSmurf

        Not only that, but it’s designed to get more students to the next level of learning.

        • Richard Baldwin

          Hmmm, well if that is true, perhaps you could explain just what that next level of learning is? I would very much like to know. I being one of the unfortunate ones that were grounded in solid arithmetic, back in the formative years of my youth. As far as fitting in with a curriculum, I would say is absurd if the curriculum is misguided, or wrong on some level. I would like you to show me the next step in “common core” math. Say,,,algebra? The basic starting out algebra. The stuff that still has lots of numbers, and arithmetic involved. Just go on, show me the next level. And tell me how it fits in with the “curriculum” you are describing.

          • CPSmurf

            “Please. Enlighten me. I urge you.”

            Not possible. You’re obviously an old codger set in your ways. You’ve learned math one way and for you there is no other way.

            However, if you are truly wanting enlightenment, Google Common Core Initiative and you’ll find all the answers to your questions.

    • Falon Benham

      Why are we assuming that the common core was created by Liberals? Common core is absolutely ridiculous, entirely convoluted, and lacks any common sense… wait… wait, doesn’t that sound more like Republicans? It think both parties are equally ridiculous and obnoxious, just to clarify.

      • Annoyed

        I’m with you, I hate politics in general. What I find more annoying than any specific party, is people who bring up politics in anything and everything, just because they feel like they’re smart by saying some political word. If they were really smart, they’d realize most people reading their comment don’t give a flying crap about their political opinion because it has nothing to do with the article they’re commenting on.

        • Falon Benham

          Wow, it is so rare to find genuine and intelligent people on the internet. I’m glad some people with common sense still exist.

          • Annoyed

            I usually speak more out of annoyance than common sense…hence my name lol. But thanks!

      • falonsaretard

        Falon, you are a moron. It’s almost always the Dems who say dumb as dirt things the media catches. It is also the Dems that lack any sort of common sense and yet scream when conservative Republicans don’t want to jump to their way of doing things. In our country, the areas with the lowest cost of living are 95% or more run by Repubs you democratic retard.

        • Falon Benham

          I’m sorry you assume that I lack intelligence. Also, I am neither republican nor democratic, I believe both political parties have good and bad points, and I agree and disagree with various issues of both. I have voted for both political parties based on my morals and values.
          However, you did not achieve your goal of making me feel less superior to you by attacking me personally and slandering my name, sorry. Perhaps in the future a better worded attack with less blatant name calling and more thought process will better achieve your goal?

        • Jane Jessee

          case in point: Detroit was run by Republican Mayors unitl 1962 when the Dams took over…NOW look it it…most of their former mayors are in jail and the city is a war zone…I rest my case

          • CPSmurf

            San Francisco, Salt Lake City, New York City, Denver, Chicago, Miami. All controlled by Democratic Mayors for YEARS. All thriving communities.

            Nobody is in jail. The cities aren’t war zones.

            I rest my case…

          • Jeff Johnson

            Detroit was dismantled by republican policies that destroyed our manufacturing sector, clueless one.

      • copywriter111

        Clearly Nancy Pelozzi style Democrat.

        • Falon Benham

          Who? Me? Hardly. Pelosi is as uneducated as a rock.

          • copywriter111

            She lives in a dimension of her own. She is the living image of Twilight Zone. She would have been a great Rod Serling replacement.

          • Falon Benham

            Ha, very true. I saw a speech of hers a few days ago and all I could think was “wow, what planet do you live on?”

          • copywriter111

            Nobody with any public media connection seems to question her spin on reality especially while she speaks. Her smile reminds me of the image from the book One Flew Over The Cookoo’s Nest. Very strange.

    • Annoyed

      Why do people love to throw political labels around whenever they comment on something they don’t like? It’s annoying. And I know you just made an automatic assumption about me, but that assumption would be wrong because I’m not in whichever party you hate, since I don’t follow politics at all. I hate the subject, since people use any excuse they can to talk about politics and can’t shut up about it.

      • Sidony

        Thank you. I feel the same way — so sick of hearing people argue politics. My politics have nothing to do with the fact that I think Common Core is stupid.

  • freedomseaker1 .

    I am so glad I do not have kids in the school system, IF I did, I would put them out and home school them, This is ridiculous!!!!

    • Dan Glander

      The government set it up so that home schoolers have to use common core too. There is no escape from this counter productive form of education.

  • cerista

    Too bad that degree in “Electronics Engineering” didn’t teach reading comprehension to “Frustrated Parent”.

  • CPSmurf

    Wow. Most of you commenting here apparently never took algebra where number lines are used early on. The problem is not meant to teach the quickest way to solve a problem, because, quite frankly, the quickest way is to use a calculator.

    It’s an exercise to learn alternative ways to solve a problem. The correct answer is that Jack counted the 100’s correctly, at 3, but that he neglected to count the 10’s correctly, at 1 — in fact he skipped that step altogether, and then counted the one’s correctly at 6. However, his answer was 121 and not 111 as it should be.

    Common core math isn’t about finding the quickest way to a solution, but to the teach that there are more ways to solve problems. The fact that this “Electrical Engineer” can’t solve a problem in multiple ways is the prime reason why the United States has fallen behind the world in terms of education and advancement in science.

    • Ted

      This Is Liberal Math And It Has No Right Or Wrong Answer. You Are A Jack And Jill And The Problem Never Gets Solved.

      • CPSmurf

        Um, no. There is a right answer.

        • Toxic Jarhead

          The right answer is to NOT listen to you and your ilk!

          • CPSmurf

            Accountants?

          • MARK

            Yea, accountants are going to use this to solve a simple equation, lol. Not in this world and not if they want to continue working for me.

          • CPSmurf

            I don’t use an abacus either, Mark, but I was taught how to use one in kindergarten. Again, it’s introducing students to different ways of solving and understand problems. But I’m sure that last statement is waaaaay over your head.

          • Falon Benham

            You are really rude, you realize that, yes?

    • Falon Benham

      While I disagree with you, I respect your argument and value your opinion. Yes, the US has fallen behind, but this common more is so convoluted that it is more of a hindrance than an asset to the educational system.

      • CPSmurf

        No, it’s not convoluted. Common core is about standards. And it’s spot on.

        • Falon Benham

          I will agree to disagree with you on this, and for the fact that they now have required classes for elementary education majors that teach how to teach Common Core. A good friend of mine, who is also going for a teaching degree in both Math and Science, had to take four extra, very expensive classes, to not only learn Common core, but to be able to teach it to his students. How is it not convoluted when the people who are going to be teaching it cannot even figure it out?

          • CPSmurf

            Common core is a standard. Curricula is developed using those standards. I’d be curious to know the university that your friend is attending and the specific classes that are being taught — especially four extra classes.

            Common core isn’t that difficult to understand.

          • Falon Benham

            It’s in Michigan. He had to take two classes for math and two for science, one taught Common core to him, the other taught him how to teach common core. For the fact that I am not in the class, I’m not entirely sure what they were called (and I’m not bothering my friend at this hour to ask). I do know that he had to take the classes as a new standard, due to the fact that the teachers who are already working in the school system do not understand common core well and are learning with their students; therefore, they cannot teach it to the best for their ability. They want the new teachers to be able to teach it to the fullest of their ability so the kids have a better time understanding.
            I do realize how standard is established, I just believe they could have come up with a better standard is all.

          • CPSmurf

            Yeah, I call baloney. Call your friend tomorrow and post the specific classes that were required for his degree and the university he was taking.

          • Falon Benham

            Why? Clearly you know how to use the internet, or did common core fail to teach you what Google is?

          • CPSmurf

            Common core is a standard. Once you understand that, you’ll stop using it in the manner that you are. Common core won’t fail. The curriculum used to measure the standard might fail, but that standard can’t.

            Now, the reason why I called baloney is that I *did* use Google. As far as I can tell, there are no additional classes for someone in college to take concerning “Common Core” requirements.

            http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mde/Facts_About_Teacher_Certification_In_Michigan_230612_7.pdf

          • Falon Benham

            you know, I was enjoying our debate, and then you kind of turned into a jerk. the class codes are ATAM 0070; ATAM 1000; CSSK 1200 ;EDUC 2010 It’s a Michigan College, and that’s all your getting.

          • Ferrish Thefish

            That’s what happens when people like CPSmurf encounter facts that don’t fit into their political narrative.

          • CPSmurf

            There is no such college in Michigan. There is Lake Michigan College, North Central Michigan College, Northwestern Michigan College and Southwestern Michigan College, but no “Michigan College”. Oh, there’s the Michigan College of Beauty, but I’m sure that’s not it.

            This wasn’t so much of a debate as it was you making statements and me disproving them. Once you can narrow down the college, then we can see what those course numbers actually are — and to be honest, it’s moot since I’ve already shown you the standards by which teachers are certified in Michigan and there isn’t any special “common core” requirement.

          • Sidony

            Falon said “a Michigan college” but never specified which one. Reread it and you’ll see what I mean. Could be any of those you named though I personally don’t care.

          • CPSmurf

            Right. My mistake. She still won’t identify the college because she knows I would challenge her on what those courses are.

          • Art Weaver

            I call BS on you! Saying you are not a liberal is one thing. Supporting liberal ideas and agendas is entirely another!
            YOU are a liberal.
            Common Core is NOT a standard, it is a protocol. Look it up.
            A protocol should be an effective interface between a primary system and a wide range of secondary systems.
            Common Core is nothing of the kind. It in fact is designed to make intelligent students and teachers less effective in the classroom while promoting the less intelligent. It is also intended to indoctrinate students and teachers into the path of progressive liberalism!
            I could go on much deeper, but why waste my time? You’ll never acknowledge anything that even smells of the truth!

          • CPSmurf

            You’re right. Your comment smells.

          • CPSmurf

            No, it’s a standard. I looked it up…

          • CPSmurf

            Again, it’s not listed in the certification standard for Michigan teachers, so there is a disconnect somewhere. My guess is that these aren’t additional classes at all, but just part of the curriculum necessary to graduate to get a degree.

          • CPSmurf

            “I do realize how standard is established, I just believe they could have come up with a better standard is all.”

            Hundreds of teachers worked on establishing these standards. What facts do you use to justify this belief?

          • Just my opinion

            Sorry to disagree with you,but it is very hard to understand what this has to do with the real world.The majority of kids will not use any of this and the teachers can’t teach what the kids really need to learn because they are to busy trying to help them learn this crap. I know because my son is in school and the teachers don’t even teach penmanship anymore, but this they have to learn. Sorry, I don’t understand how this is helping kids now days. My opinion

          • Falon Benham

            I’ll agree that unless you go into something with a math heavy major/career you’re not going to use this. I think the most math I’ve used since graduating high school is addition and subtraction, and and percents, although rarely.

          • CPSmurf

            Yes, I’m sure you’re having a hard time understanding it. Not all students are going to get this method, just like some students have a hard time with other methods.

            The problem is that the U.S. is falling behind the rest of the world. Fewer students are moving on in math and science because they don’t meet the basic minimum requirements. The Common Core Initiative is a set standards that encourages the development of multiple methods of curricula.

          • Ferrish Thefish

            The US is still ahead of the rest of the world in education. It only appears worse because liberals like to compare statistics from all American schools (good and bad) with statistics from only the best foreign schools. They need those numbers to justify all their “initiatives.” Why do you think everyone else sends their best students to study here?

          • CPSmurf

            No, it isn’t.

            “Why do you think everyone else sends their best students to study here?”

            Because our universities are excellent. Do you see everyone else sending their students to our high schools?

          • Ferrish Thefish

            “…the U.S. is falling behind the rest of the world.”
            “…our universities are excellent.”

            You really should think about taking a course in logic.

          • Falon Benham

            I’ll give that when CPSmurf is talking about falling behind the rest of the world, that it is implied that elementary to high school is being talked about, since that is where Common Core is being taught primarily, and yes, our Universities do excel. Take into account that the students who come here for their education then go back to their country of origin, mostly of the time, to use what they learned.

          • Ferrish Thefish

            If they paid with 100% their own money, then I’m fine with it, but a lot of them get financial aid from us to go to our colleges. Makes me mad when those types immediately return to their country of origin without bothering to give anything back.

            I do not think CPSmurf is correct in asserting that American elementary through high school education is falling behind the rest of the world. And while you dislike the involvement of politics, I’d like to point out that blind insistence that ANY change is necessarily a change for the better is a trait pretty unique to liberal ideology.

          • CPSmurf

            “I do not think CPSmurf is correct in asserting that American elementary
            through high school education is falling behind the rest of the world.”

            No. It’s correct. Our students are behind. It’s also not “blind insistence”. As Falon has pointed out, correctly, this initiative wasn’t started nor advocated by any one political ideology.

          • CPSmurf

            No. The logic is sound. We aren’t producing that many students that are capable of entering, let alone finishing, college level math and science courses.

            For the most part our Universities have a disproportionate number of foreign students studying and obtaining these degrees.

            The logic is sound.

    • Ferrish Thefish

      And you apparently never took logic. You want Common Core to be a nationwide standard, yet when forced to defend it you can only point out its value as a “alternative” method? Seems to me that Common Core won’t be teaching multiple methods to solve a problem if it’s the sole method taught.

      Long subtraction solves 427 – 316 with three steps and no number line:
      4 – 3 = 1
      2 – 1 = 1
      7 – 6 = 1

      Common core solves 427 – 316 with ten steps:
      427 – 100 = 327
      327 – 100 = 227
      227 – 100 = 127
      127 – 10 = 117
      117 – 1 = 116
      116 – 1 = 115
      115 – 1 = 114
      114 – 1 = 113
      113 – 1 = 112
      112 – 1 = 111

      Ten steps vs. three steps … that’s not convoluted herp derp derpity derp derp!

      • CPSmurf

        “Seems to me that Common Core won’t be teaching multiple methods to solve a problem if it’s the sole method taught.”

        Again, Common Core is the standard. It’s not a method.

        You’ve described two methods — one that uses a number line and one that uses long subtraction (even though you’ve actually shown the short method, but I digress.) Both methods meet the standard.

        Derp derpity derp derp, derp…

        • Ferrish Thefish

          This week I’ll be spending 3 hours of my day teaching three alternative methods of understanding acceleration’s relationship to velocity and position: the secant method, vector addition, and graphical analysis. All three methods I teach appeal to different skill sets and have individual merit for certain types of problems.

          That is not the case for the Common Core method—which will continue to be the name for that monstrosity no matter how many “points” you pretend to win playing semantics. There is no possible problem for which the Common Core method will be simpler than long subtraction, because the simplest possible application of the Common Core method is exactly the same as a long subtraction problem.

          But feel free to remain convinced that Common Core and its alternative methods will profoundly enrich our children’s lives by forcing them to transform 9 – 7 from a simple subtraction into 9 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 1 = 2. No wonder poor Jack loses count of all those 1’s.

          • CPSmurf

            “But feel free to remain convinced that Common Core and its alternative methods…”

            Common core is a standard, not a method.

            With all that knowledge about acceleration’s relationship to velocity and position: the secant method, vector addition, and graphical analysis and you still can’t figure that out?

          • Ferrish Thefish

            Why do you have such an issue with the term “Common Core method?” It’s an accurate description for a subtraction technique that seems pretty unique to the Common Core standard. Do you feel equally compelled to point out that a grapefruit is a subtropical fruit whenever you hear the term “grapefruit technique?”

          • CPSmurf

            It presumes that there is only one method. There isn’t. Common Core is a set of standards, not a set of methods. Additionally, the standard method of long subtraction is still a method required by Common Core.

          • Ferrish Thefish

            You’re seeing implications where there aren’t any. If it bothers you so much, come up with a better name for it. Don’t go trying to shut down conversation about a topic just because it offends you so much when anyone dares describe that topic with anything less that 20 words and a disclaimer.

          • CPSmurf

            Words have actual meanings. When you use them improperly then it changes the meaning of the conversation.

          • Ferrish Thefish

            “Flat tires” have a measurable thickness.
            “Snake-eyes” has never involved snakes.
            “Hamburgers” did not originate in Hamburg, Germany.
            “Rhode Island” is not an island.
            “Sneakers” are terrible for sneaking around.

            Words are required to communicate. When you prevent certain subjects from being described with words, it shuts down the conversation entirely.

          • CPSmurf

            “Common Core” is a standard, not a method.

            You are being obtuse.

          • Ferrish Thefish

            Manhattan is a city, not a project.
            Apollo is an ancient Greek deity, not a series of NASA missions.
            Klondike is a region in Canada, not an ice cream bar.

            You’re being moronic.

          • CPSmurf

            Buzz off, twerp…

  • Ted

    Once again an Example of Liberals destroying the U.S.

    • Falon Benham

      Please, feel free to enlighten us as to how either political party has helped and/or harmed the United States. The political party as a whole, not just the individuals who represent or represented them at the time. What examples are you speaking of? And, more importantly, what counter examples of conservatives helping can you offer?

      • Annoyed

        All these people throwing out irrelevant comments about politics are all in the same party… the Bandwagon party. It’s the one where they love to insult whichever party they’re not in simply because they see lots of other unintelligent people doing the same thing, so they think “hey that’s what all the cool kids are doing, so I’m gonna do it too! I’ll use some political words and slander the other party so I sound smart…yipppeeeee!”. I think we should call these people “wagontards”.

        • Falon Benham

          Ha, agreed. Clearly many of them never grew out of their “school kid” phase and feel the need to be sheep. “Wagontards”, I like it.

          • Art Weaver

            There is nothing more stupid, or more funny, than a liberal pretending to be apolitical. You see, you can’t be apolitical, and still support the primary ideas and functions of liberalism and progressives!
            Sorry but “derp,” you lose!

      • Ted

        You need to go back to school and study Political Science as well as Sociology outside of brainwashed Liberalism. First, Liberal is NOT a Political Party, it is a Worldview. However, the Democrats have become overrun with extreme Liberals and the nation is paying for it. The nation is burdened beyond belief with Illegal Immigration (A Disgrace), The Race Card (Sharpton, Jackson, Liberal Whites, Black On Black Crimes As In Chicago, Black On White Crimes never Making The National Media), Obama’s Ambiguous Affordable Healthcare Act, Obama’s Blind Foreign Policy, The Federal Governments Educational System and it’s large increase in how Public Schools are to operate etc……. This is all part of the chaos and destruction of the United States. We have become a land of tribes with “Liberal Village Idiots” running the circus instead of the Unification that President Obama promised. You have written quite a lot and you seem to desire extreme Liberalism, power is addictive even in the minds of Liberals. I pray the rest of America wakes up ASAP and learns to function in moderate balance before we all sink into the garbage dump.

  • Stephanie Patterson

    This math only makes our kids dumb, making it harder to solve simple math problems. As a home school parent who is supposed to be teacher this, I think it is outrageous. Luckily I have the ability to teach me kids the proper way to solve a problem. Not everyone has that luxury, thankfully my state just voted to remove it from our school systems next year.

    • CPSmurf

      As a teacher, you should proof read your comments before you post. There is more than one way to teach children subtraction and algebraic concepts.

      As a teacher, you should also know this.

      • Toxic Jarhead

        Nope! You are wrong!

        • CPSmurf

          I’m wrong? About what? Be specific.

      • sdsads

        cbvcvcv

      • sdsads

        ghgghgh

      • Stephanie Patterson

        I am a home school parent, not a teacher. Yes, there is multiple ways to teach children math concepts. Common core math as a standard teaching method is making our kids unable to do simple problems quickly and efficiently, making simple math over complicated.

        • CPSmurf

          Which is an odd statement, since the methods used to meet the standard include traditional methods. Are you suggesting that once a student learns the traditional method that they are now unable to use when they are taught another method?

  • jd

    I Googled Common Core Inventor, and there isn’t one, Mostly what I found was a bunch of double talk and fancy words. Most teachers and Administrators do not understand it. I’d like to take Every Teacher and School Administrator that says that Math should be taught this way, and make them take a 100 question test using Common Core only and put them up against the same number of High School Drop outs, using the Old method, and see who comes up with a high grade.

    • CPSmurf

      “Mostly what I found was a bunch of double talk and fancy words.”

      Somehow, that doesn’t surprise me.

      Try Googling “Common Core Initiative”

  • MARK

    Most teachers would never make it in the real world.

  • Khalid Al-Yazidi

    Number line is wrong , he must subtract 300 , 10 and 6.
    But what I see is , subtracting 300 and only 6, that’s wrong.

  • Earthgal

    CC = BS

  • Brad Alan Pearson

    Well, here’s something that is sure to make a lot of you very angry but I’m sick of hearing about common core. Here’s the simple truth: if you don’t understand common core you don’t understand simple base 10 arithmetic. Yes, I’m sure you can do it, but only because you memorized it by rote. You don’t understand it. It’s not your fault, you were never expected to understand, only do by rote. If you can’t solve the problem in the picture, you have a serious lack of problem solving ability. Being able to DO something is NOT THE SAME as UNDERSTANDING something. The “Common core” techniques are not new. They’re just a different way to teach basic arithmetic that includes comprehension instead of just memorization. But instead of trying to do a little research or, heaven forbid, ask for help (The best place if you don’t want to ask the teacher would be your pharmacist.) in understanding you write this on your child’s assignment. While I’m sure this child’s teacher is the person that thought up, wrote up, and forced the implementation of common core at gunpoint, this kind of behaviour isn’t productive. It just makes the teacher’s job harder because now they have to give the child a failing mark. Also, the “frustrated parent” doesn’t understand basic grammar nor do they understand basic arithmetic. I truly hope they don’t have a lot of debt from their “education.” #startthebutthurt (Also, before all the ad hominem starts. I’m not a liberal sympathizer, a liberal, or any other form of liberal (other than a liberal arts major.))

    • CPSmurf

      “If you can’t solve the problem in the picture, you have a serious lack of problem solving ability.”

      EXACTLY.

    • Falon Benham

      This is the best thing I have read all day. I do think that one of the major problems people are having with Common Core is in fact that not everyone grew up learning Math, nor any of the other subjects, using the Common Core standard. I agree that if you cannot solve the problem in the picture, you have a serious lack of problem solving abilities. And while the teacher is not the one who may have come up with the question, it’s just the outlet for the parent. Just like when a retail cashier is reprimanded by a customer for the store being out of a product you were looking for, you realize it’s not the cashiers fault and they in fact have little to do with what the store had in stock, but you’re taking out your frustrations on the cashier because they are the most readily available to hear the complaint.
      I’ll point out though, that your grammar is not exactly spot on either, nor am I saying mine is, take into account that it may have been written in haste, as most of these comments are, and that the first thing in the authors mind is not the delivery of the message, but the message itself.

    • Ferrish Thefish

      Common Core tells me that 9 – 7 cannot be solved unless I transform it into 9 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 1 – 1. The solution to the problem now relies on my ability to not accidentally miscount the number the 1’s I had to subtract. These poor kids will be confused as hell if they have 9 apples and someone takes away 7 apples all at once instead of one by one.

      Claiming that you understand arithmetic better than me because you do addition/subtraction by counting up/down is like saying you understand mowing a lawn better because you cut each blade individually with nail clippers.

      • CPSmurf

        “Common Core tells me…”

        Clearly you do not understand that the Common Core Initiative is a standard and that it teaches different methods in order to expand students understanding.

        • Ferrish Thefish

          Except the different methods it teaches are so convoluted, they’ll increase frustration rather than comprehension.

          Even if Common Core were flawlessly executed, these are elementary school kids, not short adults with high-pitched voices and sticky hands. Their brains are in early stages of development and aren’t equipped for any deep intellectual understanding of basic math (at least, based on my experience as a child prodigy with high aptitude in math). Until they reach that point, just teach them a simple method—like long subtraction—that they can learn by rote and that they have the attention span to use, or else they won’t even understand how it’s done.

          • CPSmurf

            Again, CLEARLY you do NOT understand Common Core. It’s probably because you have such a high aptitude in math, but lower in other areas.

            The standard mandates proficiency in the standard method — long subtraction.

            “Except the different methods it teaches are so convoluted…”

            So with your high math aptitude, you think number lines are convoluted?

          • Ferrish Thefish

            Seeing as I personally teach multiple methods of doing one thing, I believe I do understand that learning multiple methods can be helpful. But unlike you, I recognize that added benefit of multiple methods depends on the usefulness of the methods themselves. If they do not complement each other in terms of comprehension or application, then they are a waste of time.

            Number lines and base 10 arithmetic are not convoluted from the perspective of an educated adult, but elementary school kids are not intellectually equipped to handle them. Show me an elementary school teacher who taught a dozen subtraction methods to their students, and I’ll show you a classroom of kids who learned a dozen methods by rote, who didn’t comprehend a single one to any noteworthy degree, and who will have to re-learn it all over again when actual comprehension is required.

            It’s much better to teach students long subtraction, which is faster than counting on a badly-scaled number line. They won’t have learned so many methods, but they’ll have learned to do that one method well. Learning to do something well is inherently rewarding and builds confidence. Having to start over and learn a new method every time you start getting good at the current one is just a frustrating waste of time.

          • CPSmurf

            False assumption, Professor. I do recognize the added benefit.

            “Number lines and base 10 arithmetic are not convoluted from the
            perspective of an educated adult, but elementary school kids are not
            intellectually equipped to handle them.”

            Disagree. Number lines have been taught in elementary school since the ’60’s. Some students don’t understand them until later in the learning process. Many get it right away.

            “It’s much better to teach students long subtraction…”

            Which, as I have pointed out NUMEROUS times, is STILL required under the Common Core Initiative.

          • Ferrish Thefish

            Have you even been reading my posts?

            You think teaching multiple methods is ALWAYS advantageous, even when it CLEARLY ISN’T. I’ve offered multiple examples disproving this absurd notion.

            Common Core requires long subtraction, but it ALSO requires ADDITIONAL, POINTLESS subtraction methods that waste time, destroy confidence, and undermine motivation.

            Common Core:
            ZERO evidence of long-term advantages.
            PLENTY of evidence of immediate disadvantages.

            What sane person jumps on that kind of bandwagon?

          • CPSmurf

            You’ve offered no evidence to support your claims. You’ve offered opinions, but no concrete evidence.

            Here’s what a distinguished professor of mathematics has to say: “we found that the new standards closely resemble the standards of those countries that do best in mathematics.”

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-h-schmidt/the-common-core-state-sta_b_2078325.html

          • Ferrish Thefish

            You’re hilarious.

            Given that you’ve ignored about 80% of what I’ve said to you, it doesn’t surprise me that you failed to read your own article and got duped so easily. Take a closer look at his statistics.

            90% of teachers and 68% of parents support “common math standards.” Not Common Core, just “stronger common standards.”

            90% of parents think our students should learn math “as advanced as that in higher-achieving countries.” Again, not Common Core, just more advanced math.

            On the contrary, Dr. Schmidt notes that “over three quarters of teachers” who have actually taught at the elementary school level (like me, incidentally) fail to see what Common Core brings to the table. Dr. Schmidt, who has no experience teaching at the elementary school level, concludes that we would like Common Core more if we just knew more about it.

            It’s funny how he was able to compare different states and determine the ones with standards “more like the CCSSM” do better, even though he admits he can’t “accurately compare how students are doing in math across different states.”

            It’s pretty clear by now that you just reject all evidence that doesn’t agree with your pre-conceived conclusion and accept all evidence that does, regardless of how flawed it may be. I can’t believe I let someone like you waste my time.

  • The Redneck Atheist

    I like how everyone bandwagons that those “evil, heathen, commie scum liberals” made common core.

    Its the same with Obama. Every societal ill is blamed on him as well. Your sister’s friend’s cousin’s father’s buddy who’s aunt stubbed her pinky toe? Clearly Obama’s fault.

    • Ferrish Thefish

      The belief that ANY change, irrespective of how manifestly terrible it is, is necessarily a change for the better is a cornerstone of liberal ideology.

      • The Redneck Atheist

        That’s simply, patently false. I’ve never once heard that at any of the liberal club meetings and I cannot find it in my liberalism handbook.

        • Ferrish Thefish

          Then why do liberal politicians always advocate changes? Obama explicitly stated that he would never stand for the status quo (aside from the 2012 election, when the status quo kept him in power). Since it’s so much easier to make stupid laws than good laws, it’s obvious that the vast majority of potential alternatives to the status quo are actually worse than the status quo. So why do liberal politicians always advocate changes?

          Because they know they can count on their low-info voter base to assume that any change whatsoever is necessarily for the better. Doesn’t matter if they never wrote that down in some handbook. Doesn’t matter if the voter base itself doesn’t realize that. It’s what their success relies on, and that’s the definition of a “cornerstone.”

          Some examples:
          Paycheck Fairness Act: Liberals believe that allowing women to sue their employers for no reason is an improvement because it’s a change. Never mind the huge incentive this creates for employers to avoid hiring women. It’s a change and that’s all that matters.

          Minimum Wage Laws: Liberals believe that forcing companies to pay entry-level, unskilled manual laborers $15/hr is an improvement because it’s a change. Never mind that anyone who can’t do more than $15 worth of work in 1hr would be an unemployable money sink. It’s a change and that’s all that matters.

          Raising Capital Gains Tax: Liberals believe that denying investors a portion of the return on their investments is an improvement because it’s a change. Never mind that this punishes the rich for giving money to someone else to become successful with (that’s literally what investment is). It’s a change and that’s all that matters.

  • Lacs

    Common core was made up as a “trick” to do math in your head faster – But …. what is lacking is the comprehension that comes from doing traditional/real math. You know the answer……. but don’t know how you got there.

  • teejcee44

    The common core is created to make you stupid. It makes you look stupid, and it makes others think you are stupid. This is an attempt to DUMB DOWN people.

  • EJS

    Yes just get pissed instead if actually understanding what it is. The CC way teaches basics just like every other type of job or science we learn. You start out breaking it down to the simplest form and then moving on from there. Just because the generations who are already out of school don’t understand it DOES NOT mean it is a worthless way of learning.

  • Don_cos

    Sorry but someone with a “Bachelor of Science Degree in Electronics Engineering” should be able to understand a simple number line. They have been teaching this since I was in school back in the 60’s and 70’s. I don’t like everything about common core but at least come up with something real to complain about.

  • Jane Jessee

    Time for homeschooling and common SENSE….someone is making big bucks off this lunacy

  • Heather

    This is not common core. This is using a number line. It has been taught at the very least since I was in elementary school…over 30 years ago.

  • Bobby Austin

    Common core is Marxism. Period.wake up liberals dumbing down American yet again. Why do you think liberals wanted to control education via unions and the department of education. It wasn’t to enhance teaching American history and good citizenship. Wake up.

  • Nancy Kiser

    WHAT!!!!!!! I tried to help my grandson with an algebra problem and all I can say is “wow, where did these idiots come from?” I made straight A’s in math, algebra and geometry, but this is utterly ridiculous, at best.

  • William Hartman

    Electronics Engineering? Liar. It’s Electrical Engineering. If she actually had a degree in anything she would be able to figure out common core because college teaches you to think logically and critically. I was not taught common core and figured out what was wrong within a minute. The question didn’t ask you to figure out the answer, it asked to figure out the flaw in the other person’s math, which is something I have to do at work daily.

  • Hoey Joey

    Liberal fascist I would have to say.

  • Mitchell Rubinstein

    Common Core is complete nonsense. Many people are realizing that now, but a surprising number of you are stubbornly resistant to the facts. The people who sent our astronauts to the moon, designed the first computers, founded Apple, Intel, Google, Facebook, created EVERY major technological advance of the last 25 years….ALL Americans, and ALL learned math the same way… WITHOUT Common Core.
    Common Core is GREAT for a few things though, 1) convincing dumb people that Americans all have terrible schools, and 2) earning BILLIONS of dollars for “education” corporations selling us bizarre new curricula to help us solve a non-existent problem.

  • Bonnie

    A mom after my own heart…

  • gingerpal

    Yes, who dreamed up this assinine idea. If it was such a great invention why not own it.

  • mastedon2

    Common core seems more like a method to dumb down American students by an anti-American group of politicians or people that wish to do us harm. Its not always a gun pointing at your face folks…

  • Hater Hatington

    Folks, this question isn’t difficult, and the purported electronics engineer parent didn’t even get the right answer using the obviously nonsensical way they tried to shovel off on Jack. 127 – 10 isn’t 107.

    Jack just forgot to subtract 10, those are supposed to be ones, hence getting 121. All he had to do was add one step, subtracting 10 between the hundreds and the ones. The idea is to understand what the shortcut is doing, to see it another way, and to reason why Jack was wrong and how to fix it.

    If your kid doesn’t know how to subtract, how about you sit down for an hour or two one night and show them. I reckon if every parent taught their kids anything they knew better than the teachers we wouldn’t be falling behind in every area.

  • Mireille Diltz

    This has nothing to do with teaching our kids how to have common sense and a normal Intelligence … ITS BS. I always believed that Algebra is already way to out of line. But this BS …. grrrrrrrr what direction is our county heading too. I will not support this BS for my grand daughter i will find a school where they don;t follow the stupid Obama BS …

    • knight0334

      I failed algrebra in highschool because I over simplified the equation or just gave the answer. Math is about getting the right answer regardless as to how you processed the equation. Sometimes there are different methods to getting the proper answer, but unfortunately the “system” only wants one method.

    • Tannim

      The difference between kindergarten math and algebra is changing boxes and triangles for letters and adding the distributive property of multiplication with respect to addition.

  • Logic and Reason

    This is the first time I’ve ever seen this. And it really isn’t all that hard. If that parent couldn’t figure it out they are not very intelligent.

    Sure it is not very efficient for simple math, but it is the physical embodiment of tricks we were all taught in school anyway, which is to break the numbers down into more rounded numbers. So you take 427 and subtract 300 (or 3 100 chucks as shown) then substract 10, then subtract 6.

    This method may actually be EASIER to comprehend for problems like 516-427, where you subtract 400 to get 116, then 20 to get 96, then 7 to get 89 rather than dealing with crossing out the 1 to make the 6 a 16 and subtracting 7, then doing 50-42 to get the 8.

    For people who math is simple for this is impractical and probably slower, but not all that complex or confusing.

    • Tannim

      Except that methodology is backwards and creates unnecessary complications and errors.

  • Matthew Reno

    I dropped out and make over 100k per year. I can see the dumb logic in common core yet it’s pointless. It is to dumb down the society and teach them to accept the wrong information and disregard truth.

  • Don Dickey

    This tells us that some teachers / educators need a Plexotomy, That is where a piece of plexiglass is inserted into their belly button so they can see the light of day !

  • Donna E Turner

    They want America to fail and they are willing to destroy our children in the process. It is time to destroy them instead.

  • Brujah1031

    This makes it seem that homeschooling or a private school that shares your values is appropriate. I don’t have kids, yet, but if I saw this I would pull my child out of school and teach them at home.

  • JW

    Look world, in the U.S we can politicize even basic number properties! Teaching our kids to count by 100’s and 10’s and 1’s rather than using simple addition and subtraction tricks? NOT IN ‘MURICA!!!

    • Guest

      I’m also hoping this engineer mom above isn’t building bridges ’cause she’s an idiot.

  • Jim Pickenheim

    I have a degree in mathematics from Penn state. I do not understand this method for subtraction. But the question isn’t asking you to solve the problem, it is asking what jack did wrong. Maybe this common core competency is actually geared toward trouble shooting, and not the method. A quick glance at the number line reveals that he skipped 117. That would cause whatever method he used to be wrong.
    I’m not saying that common core is the way to go, but maybe before you go crazy saying how stupid something is, we should just try to answer the question. Maybe these competencies are something worth learning.

    • I have to agree. The Intended Learning Outcome isn’t stated on the paper so there’s no way to know from it (alone) how to assess the Behavior Evidence for successful completion of this exercise. The trouble with Psychopedagogy is that “we all went to school so we all think we know how they should work”. The reality is that it’s an evolving discipline. I don’t know much about this American “common core” but here in Ontario we switched to a Common Curriculum for K-12 and there was a learning curve even for the curriculum development itself. #peace

      • Tannim

        The Common Core curve is an inverse hyperbola graphed on a Cartesian plane with coordinates in i and pi.

        • Sorry to hear it. Sounds completely irrational and infinitely puzzling. 🙂

    • Tannim

      See above as to what Jack did wrong–it was using a bad methodology in the first place.

  • Morgan Dominy

    With Common Core in hand you can solve problems like 1000000 – 999999 in a fraction of the time it takes if you always stick to the traditional algorithm. And no you can’t just say “well the answer is one, duh!” because if you do, then you’re actually sort of using the exact same Common Core method Jack incorrectly used. The only thing that happened here is some parent freely admitted how unintelligent and/or lazy they are (evidenced by their failure to understand the problem) despite their B.S. degree.

    There will exist problems solvable with Common Core thinking much faster than the traditional algorithm and vice versa. This does not imply one is superior to the other. Parents who grew up with the traditional algorithm will be confused and fail to understand Common Core. They will get mad about it. This does not imply one is superior to the other either. The goal of Common Core is to instill an understanding of number rather than crank out human calculators who think 1.11 > 1.2. If you want to know whether it’s working or not, it would be more constructive to head over to Google Scholar rather than lashing out at teachers for no reason. There are plenty of research papers out there about how effective (or not) Common Core is. Or you could assume “frustrated parent” is the end-all be-all authority on everything related to primary mathematics education. It’s up to you.

    • Tannim

      Sorry, but this “algorithm” would never pass a peer review in the real world for being unnecessarily complex and inducing errors.

      So says me, my mathematics degree, my computer science degree, and two decades of real-world experience.

  • Elite Girl Gamers

    This lady either cheated her way to a bachelor’s, or is an outstanding idiot. I looked at this for 30 seconds and figured out how they want it solved and the proper way to do it. Seriously. THIS is why we NEED common core. Too many people getting set in the old ways of doing things. We should be WELCOMING the mental challenges we’re bringing to our kids rather than trying to stop it. On a global scale, educationally–we suck. And we’ll never change that writing letters of grievance instead of taking the time to follow directions and figure out the answer.
    Good Lord. It’s not rocket science…it’s counting by tens and hundreds. Get a grip!

    • Deb

      so go back to using an ABACUS

      • Mitchell Rubinstein

        The Americans who invented every important technological advance in the past century didn’t need and Abacus, and they didn’t need Common Core either. Nobody has put forth an articulate argument for why we need Common Core in the first place, and I suspect nobody ever will.

    • Mitchell Rubinstein

      “On a global scale, educationally–we suck” may be the most ill-informed, uneducated comment on this thread.. and that’s saying something. Don’t feel bad though. Lots of people have been fooled into thinking our schools can’t prepare children for international tests.
      When you control for NON education based factors like poverty and demography, our kids score higher than most every country in the world.

      http://www.epi.org/publication/us-student-performance-testing/

      • Elite Girl Gamers

        TL;DR. We’re ranked 36 in the world. Asking and expecting more out of our kids isn’t a bad thing.

        • Mitchell Rubinstein

          The link above shows you exactly why that “ranking” is complete nonsense. Incidentally, the state of Massachusetts ranks above all other nations on the PISA. #1. No Common Core needed.
          You really should do a little research before repeating debunked talking points.

          • Elite Girl Gamers

            I have done some research, that’s why I came to the conclusion that doing these math problems and learning things a different way isn’t a bad thing. It allows you more strategy when encountering a problem and also provides your brain some more critical thinking skills and pathways. Also, I don’t understand how PISA can say that Mass. is number one in any category, but then state that these rankings–in fact– mean nothing. I’m totally over arguing this with a seemingly-educated internet Rubenstein, as I have already stated my point (Common Core does not have to be a bad thing–teaching parents and their children different ways to solve problems isn’t bad, etc.), and as a kid who moved frequently–I went to six different schools within 3 years at one point–I wish every school I went to would have been on the same curriculum instead of 2 months ahead or behind me, different standardized tests in different states, etc. It has it’s benefits.

          • Mitchell Rubinstein

            Just curious, if Common Core is such a step forward….such a superior way to educate children, why do almost NO private schools use them? CCSS is freely available to anyone who wants to use them, including independent schools.
            Teachers at the best private schools know how to educate and assess children, and have been doing it successfully for years.
            No Common Core needed, apparently.

    • Tannim

      Sorry, but you are so far wrong, you need a map to find where right is.

  • Deb

    Common Core makes me think an autistic person who can do math. Some can do complex problems in addition, subtraction, division, without using paper to do them. Some can’t even write. They don’t always use conventional methods, but come up with the correct answer, leaving us shaking our heads in wonder.
    Parents need to get to the ‘root’ of why, after all these years, schools think this is a better way to learn. I can’t imagine being a cashier and making change with this method. Thank Goodness most registers do it for you.

    • Josh Stetson

      The method is still the same, but in reverse for addition.
      Lets say $4.32 is your total and you pay with a $20.
      .08 will get you to $4.40, plus .60 will get you to $5, plus $15 will get you to $20.
      15+.60+.08=$15.68. I’m fairly certain that’s how you count back change properly anyway…. saying “$4.32, plus .68 makes 5 and 15 makes 20.”
      This is just a visualization of that same mental process.

  • Imtoooldforthis

    I love this parent!!

  • Amici Journal

    They all should do the same, if anyone has seen the Common Core math they are teaching…??It will do nothing more than twist the childs mind and make that and life more difficult for simple solutions!!

  • brenda chafin

    Common core math might as well be an Abacus, that is so anyone can figure out the problem, the asian and middle east countries have used this method for hundred years, I think they should learn Common sense math.

  • Shannon Danielle

    The question is asking what jack did WRONG and what he needs to do to fix his mistake. He subtracted 306. Which you can see from jacks work on the number line. He went from subtracting hundreds to subtracting ones and he skipped subtracting the tens. I don’t know what is so hard about that. Yes we would not typically use a number line to solve the equation but the question is not asking us to solve it. It is asking what jack did wrong using his method he used to solve the problem.

    • Tannim

      What was wrong was using this convoluted “method” in the first place as the method induced the error.

      • Josh Stetson

        Most people use this method to do addition or subtraction in their head. I’m sure everyone in here learned the same thing growing up. This is nothing more than a visualization of 427-300=127, 127-10=117, 117-6=111. It seems like a simple problem to you and I, but to a 7 year old it doesn’t. It eliminates the need to borrow numbers, which eliminates the need to write it down at all. This is a step toward more efficient math, although it seems complicated to parents who refuse to take 10 minutes to try and understand a teaching concept.

      • CPSmurf

        Uh, it’s purposefully set up as wrong so that a child can explain how it is wrong.

        Oh never mind. You obviously have to be willing to learn to understand the method…

        • Shannon Danielle

          Some people lack the reading comprehension skills needed to understand what the question is asking the student to do. I can understand a 2nd or 3rd grader not understanding but for an adult to not understand is sad. I feel sorry for a lot of people commenting on this story.

      • Shannon Danielle

        Wow, did you even read the question on the paper?

  • Sam Taylor

    If you totally confuse children they can grow up to be good Democrats. Problem solved in 2 seconds.

  • Mike Santino

    Now if more people would do this

  • SammyDEEEEEE
  • flybaby

    From what I hear, there’s a brand new history being written as far as the founding of America is concerned, as well as WWI and WWII. I understand the “Holocaust” isn’t even mentioned and/or a “myth”. I shudder to think what’s being made up and being left out. Of course Obama might even be in the last chapter as the messiah of humankind. Glad my kids got the three Rs.

    • CPSmurf

      Which is odd since Common Core only sets standards for English and Math.

      • flybaby

        Then I stand corrected and was obviously hearing dangerous rumors. The match question indicated in the article is hard to believe. A new math, again? I wonder what the standards are for English.

  • Corbie Wood

    They are wanting to develope a stupid and fustrated generation of children.In this way they can brainwash them into believing anything. Thank God for this parent. My suggestion the schools are more interested in pressing their agenda than teach the kids. Taking phonics out of school was just the beginning. Now we have a generation of illiterate kids who cannot write or read, now math. I tell you more worry about social agenda than teaching. Save your child home school.

    • Tannim

      You need a proofreader to remove the symbolic irony from your post.

  • Angela Davidson Weinzinger

    Dear Right News….I see that you have sent this story around again as this originally came out last year. I would like to give you a correction. It was actually the FATHER of this child that wrote this on this test. He was actually interviewed by several news outlets over this. Not sure how the story got to the point of it being the mother.

    • LorenaPChapman

      My cO-wÒrkèr’s ŞiŞter-iń-laŵ màkes $89 ĥourly oņ tĥe cōmputeŗ . Ŝhe haŜ been Ôut Ôf wÔrk fÔr 7 mÔnths bŭt lasť mÔnth hěr paychěck wäs $98752 jūst wÔrking Ôn tĥe compuŧer fõr a feŵ hõurs. vīew websīte/.124

      http://www.goooglejoobs./earnoonliine/124…..

  • Randy

    Al gore invented this, right after he invented the internet.

  • Angela Davidson Weinzinger

    Please see this clip of the FATHER that wrote this!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgwL5HSqe2Q

  • Josh Stetson

    If you don’t understand the reasoning behind this problem, and this method of subtraction, just stop posting. We’ve heard enough complaining and conspiracy theory about number lines being used to fill the prisons of the future. This problem is simple and useful, but the explanations from us “non-thinking drones” are being drowned out by all of you who have nothing useful to add.

    • CPSmurf

      Benghazi! 😉

      But seriously, nice comment

      • Josh Stetson

        Took 2 seconds for this to drop off the face of the earth! hahah

    • Josh Stetson

      Most people use this method to do addition or subtraction in their head. I’m sure everyone in here learned the same thing growing up. This is nothing more than a visualization of 427-300=127, 127-10=117, 117-6=111. It seems like a simple problem to you and I, but to a 7 year old it doesn’t. It eliminates the need to borrow numbers, which eliminates the need to write it down at all. This is a step toward more efficient math, although it seems complicated to parents who refuse to take 10 minutes to try and understand a teaching concept.

      Copied and pasted from my comment below

      • Josh Stetson

        Tannim Shannon Danielle • an hour ago
        What was wrong was using this convoluted “method” in the first place as the method induced the error.

        Reply
        CPSmurf Tannim • 22 minutes ago
        Uh, it’s purposefully set up as wrong so that a child can explain how it is wrong.
        Oh never mind. You obviously have to be willing to learn to understand the method…

        (Clarification, since I only explained how Jack’s work should have come out)

      • Susie Haynie

        Now that you have broken it down for me, I understand it. But what is wrong with teaching the Hundreds, Tens, and Ones columns? What you need to remember is that not every student can grasp what the teacher is saying. Not every student has parents that sit with them and try to figure it out. A lot of students are lacking in basic math skills so this will be so confusing. And you can’t be in every classroom breaking it down for them.

        • Josh Stetson

          You’re right, and this is just one way of breaking it down for those who have a hard time understanding the traditional method of over and under style addition and subtraction. Kind of like when “you have 5 apples, and I take away 3. How many are you left with?” People don’t have a problem with that kind of visualization. Should we line up 427 apples and take away 316 of them to help kids understand? I work in a paper mill and just explained it to you in one paragraph.

      • Ferrish Thefish

        No. This question suggests the problem 427 – 316 should be solved like this:
        427 – 100 = 327
        327 – 100 = 227
        227 – 100 = 127
        127 – 10 = 117
        117 – 1 = 116
        116 – 1 = 115
        115 – 1 = 114
        114 – 1 = 113
        113 – 1 = 112
        112 – 1 = 111

        What you have written down is just long subtraction, except starting from the largest place instead of the smallest. It doesn’t “eliminate the need to write it down” any more than long subtraction, and it certainly doesn’t “eliminate the need to borrow numbers.” Try solving 16 – 9 if you don’t believe me.

        • Josh Stetson

          Another part of common core that isn’t portrayed in this problem is to use base 10 to simplify a problem. In which case, you can see 16 is 6 away from 10, so you break the 9 down into 6 and 3, 16-6-3, or 10-3, and you get 7. It takes longer to explain, but it’s all the same way you do it in your head.

          • Ferrish Thefish

            That’s hilarious. So the steps to compute 16 – 9 are:
            Decompose 16 into 10 and 6 via 16 – 10 = 6
            Decompose 9 into 6 and 3 via 9 – 6 = 3
            Compute 16 – 6 = 10
            Compute 10 – 3 = 7

            In other words, to compute one subtraction (16 – 9 = 7) you need to construct and compute four subtractions (16 – 10 = 6; 9 – 6 = 3; 16 – 6 = 10; 10 – 3 = 7). To a 7-yr-old, each of those four subtractions is just as hard as the original subtraction. Or are you saying they should memorize all the subtractions involving the numbers 0 through 10? I thought Common Core advocates were against memorization.

    • Dear Jack,
      To subtract 316 from another number, you need to jump back three hundreds, one ten, and six ones. You got the ‘hundreds’ and the ‘ones’, but you forgot the ‘tens’. Just remember it next time and you’ll be fine!
      Sincerely,
      Someone Who Read the Problem and Can Count

      • Josh Stetson

        Perfect! Bravo! hahaha

  • Meg

    I am a high school drop out and I’m extremely conservative.. I don’t like the stereotypes here.

  • Allyson Newton

    I hope this mother realizes that her little stunt caused her child not to receive any credit for this problem on his homework. She wanted to throw a fit, so now he will have to deal with the repercussions of it.
    It’s interesting to me that a large majority of those who are so outraged by CC have no formal education in teaching. If you don’t have a PhD, like those who wrote CC, then I have a hard time believing that you could ever know more about how to teach a child than they do.
    Also, the son could not have solved that problem in 3 seconds by the traditional method. He is learning subtraction… he doesn’t know the traditional method. He doesn’t know ANY method. So it’s a completely illogical statement to say that the kid should have been able to use traditional methods to solve the problem, or that he could have done so more quickly.

    • hmmathis

      Only a complete idiot could write this statement: “If you don’t have a PhD, like those who wrote CC, then I have a hard time believing that you could ever know more about how to teach a child than they do.”

      Education majors generally come from the lower end of the intelligence scale, and most could not cut it in math and science, that is why they majored in education. The creators of CC are certainly not exceptions. I applaud this mother, and we need more like her so that this CC foolishness doesn’t succeed in dumbing down our children.

      • Allyson Newton

        Do you not see that this mom is crippling her child by doing this? That he will have to deal with a bad grade in his class because of what she did?
        If you don’t have a logical argument besides “only an idiot would say that…” then I can’t understand where you’re coming from.
        Basically you’re saying that teachers are idiots too, right? That they aren’t intelligent enough to make it, especially in maths and sciences? How do you figure? Where is the data to back that claim up?

        • Susie Haynie

          This mother is a champion for her child. Most teachers I have talked to about CC cannot stand it. But they can’t talk about it. The more we as parents speak out, the better things will be. Let’s go back to common sense teaching and holding students and parents accountable. I worked as an assistant and sub…more than half our students did not know their multiplication tables…much less this garbage. Our kids are in trouble. Common core is not the answer.

          • Allyson Newton

            If math were common sense, would we need teachers?

          • Tessera

            Actually, all you need to teach math is a brain and a good pre-Common Core math textbook. I’ve had no trouble at all teaching my son up through Algebra I. He did excellent work, and is now easily getting an A in public school Common Core Geometry, because he has a strong non-Common Core foundation of understanding and practice.

          • Allyson Newton

            This garbage is subtraction… a pretty basic mathematical necessity.

            Can you name some skills that kids are not being taught under common core that they were being taught before? I’m referring to mathematical skills.

          • Susie Haynie

            This is not a basic mathematical problem. I am simply saying that a lot of students do not grasp basic problems. Each student is different. I struggled with math as a child. I finally went to what works for me and I usually would get the correct answer. Points counted off for not following the instructions LOL. Logic plays a huge part in math. Some students do not develop that ability until they are much older. When a student cannot subtract 16-9=? automatically…what makes you think they will understand this? So many students are left behind because they are not getting the basics. And yes …that starts at home. A lot of kids don’t get what they need at home. So how do we teach the basics at school and not fall behind on the lesson plans? Must stick to the curriculum and not teach extra! Everything is geared toward the testing. But kids fall way behind on the testing because they don’t know the basics. Catch 22?

          • Allyson Newton

            I agree that the educational system has its problems… that’s why I’m a proponent of common core! You say this isn’t a basic problem… is it not just a subtraction problem?

          • Susie Haynie

            Not really. Because they are wanting you to find Jack’s error. It takes some logic to find an error. You would need to be able to break down the Hundreds, Tens, and Ones columns first…which is what they did here..but in a much more confusing way. As a child, I would have looked at this and my head would have exploded LOL. Another poster broke this down for me and now I get it. What must a child be thinking when they look at this?

          • Phil

            Number lines are taught as one of the many ways to do subtraction and addition. It’s not like the student saw this number line for the first time. They are thinking. “oh this is just like what we do in class every day”.

      • Allyson Newton

        I see that you have a PhD in computer science. That’s awesome! It’s a growing and ever changing field… just like education. If we were talking about computer science, I’d listen to everything you have to say and your arguments would be valid, because you are educated on the subject. But you are not educated on this subject. So why should I believe what you say, and not believe what the CC writers say?

      • jtom

        First, if this is a lesson to those just learning how to subtract, then those kids will be mathematically challenged for their entire lives.
        Secondly, you seem oblivious to the fact that ‘new and improved’ teaching ideas from ‘experts’ generally fail in a major way. Do you have any idea how many ‘better strategies’ for teaching math have been foisted on students over the last forty years, each one leading to lower and lower test scores?

        You won’t find another country on Earth using these methods, and the US just keeps falling further behind.

        Watch, in three years this approach will be abandoned for yet another enlightened methodology.

  • Mike Jonez
  • netraider

    I bet they don’t use Common Core in China.

  • tdm3624

    Now that my daughter is in a school that uses Common Core it will be interesting to see what type of assignments she has and if they will be anything like the stuff that is posted on conservative websites.

  • Matthew Bates

    It’s important to note that nothing on this assignment is specific to common core. Using a number line is a technique to help teach kids addition and subtraction. This applies to standards developed by a state, a city, a private school, or even a home school. All the standard says is that the child needs to understand subtraction. The method to teach subtraction is up to the teacher and the curriculum the school district uses.
    That being said, this question is not asking the child to subtract 316 from 427. It is asking the child to evaluate someone else’s work and figure out where they went wrong. If you want your child to grow up knowing how to subtract 316 from 427, congratulations. They can be replaced by a $0.99 calculator. If you want them to be able to think critically and solve problems, then encourage them to work problems like this.

    • Matthew Bates

      In case anyone is curious, the answer to the question is that the student in the question went back three steps of 100 and six steps of 1. There fore the number line is actually showing 427 – 306, so they got an answer of 121. The student should have taken one more step backwards on the line for the 1 in the tens digit.

    • Shannon Danielle

      Exactly! This is definitely more of a problem solving question than it is a math question. I would have to say about 20% of my job requires me to find the source of an error. Finding, fixing and of course explaining the error. Being able to solve problems is important in many careers that pay good wages. I find it amazing so many people do not understand the purpose of this problem.

    • Phil

      Amen, and hallelujah, somebody gets it!

    • jtom

      Well, that’s the theory. The reality is that students can’t figure out what the heck this is about, AND aren’t learning how to subtract 316 from 427.

      If you don’t believe me, go to any fast food restaurant, and pay with cash that includes coins less than a dollar (like giving a dollar, two quarters, and three dimes for an item costing $1.71). They can’t make the proper change.

      Teach them the basics first. The truth is, that will satisfy the needs of most. The others will see these numerical relationships without exercises such as this.

  • Brittney Decimus

    Am I seriously the only one who realized that the answer is that he skipped 117 on the timeline? Stop being SO QUICK to argue and assume that the government is “out to get us” and READ THE PROBLEM. Also, testing is pissing you off? The fact that kids have to pass exams at the end of each class is seriously an issue? What the heck do you think is going to happen when you’re in college?! (By the way if you want to make a decent wage, college is not an option but a requirement) Nap time is over. The job market is getting harder and harder to get into and colleges are super competitive so anything that will prepare you for success should be highly regarded

  • Sinstroke

    This is bullshit, core is an over complicated way to do something good that was so simple. It wasn’t needed to make a man walk on the moon so why do we need it now. Just so people can waste time writing out useless steps that are not needed I can’t wait to see these core students trying to hand back change at a store with out computer. Let’s us pray the power never goes out.

  • Robert Wilson

    The “defenders” are already speaking up. Prepare for a long battle. Adding perfume to BS results in BS that is almost useless.

  • Phil

    First off, this problem has nothing to do with common core. Sorry. It just doesn’t. You could have absolutely nothing to do with common core and use a number line to solve a problem. Is it inefficient, of course. That’s missing the point entirely. By having students figure out what Jack did wrong, you learn a lot about how the student is thinking about number, place value, actually UNDERSTANDING the mathematics involved. Yes, efficiency is the ultimate goal. Times lines and other non-traditional algorithms are teaching tools to facilitate understanding of number, place value, base 10 etc… They are simply that. TOOLS. You can learn a great deal on how to modify and proceed in instruction if you can see how students are thinking about numbers and the number system. That’s why showing work is vital to instruction for both the teacher and the student.

    • jtom

      Gee, how did those of us taught without these complex strategies ever get the answer right, send men to the moon and back, develop microelectronics, photonics, and a myriad of other complex technologies? What you see in the above problem is a simple concept made difficult to teach those skills you ennumerated. The problem is, it will confuse more than help, increase the boredom factor, and will turn students away from math. You see the proof of this with every new year of testing.

      Just admit defeat, and return to the methods used fifty years ago. The results were much better then than now. They will learn those other concepts as they mature, just like we did.

  • LivinginaREDstate

    I don’t understand why someone with a degree in “Electronics Engineering” has trouble understanding this. It took me seconds to figure it out. Her employer needs to fire her if she can’t understand this.

  • CA Grandma

    We as a nation have trailed most of the other civilized countries in the world in mathematics. The way math has been taught all these years has resulted in generations of people who hated math, didn’t understand the concepts, were poor mathematicians. It’s time to try something new. So hold your fire till we see the results.

    • jtom

      Those of us who went to school during the fifties scored much higher on standardized tests than children today. Instead of something new, why not go back to what actually worked in the past?

      • Josh Stetson

        Those of you who went to school in the 50s were competing against a much more impoverished and less educated global stage.
        .

        • jtom

          I didn’t compare US test scores against other countries, but US 1950s test scores against US present test scores. They have gotten worse regardless of the metric used.

          And you are delusional if you think today’s graduates are better educated than those in the 1950s. Our first math course in college was differential equations, not remedial mathematics. Our ability to write was far, far better than today.

          I participated in undergraduate and graduate EE ptograms at a respected university. After reading a set of undergrad research papers I asked the prof if he had a lot of foreign students – many papers were written as though English was there second language; misspellings, incomplete sentences, and a total absence of logical construction. He said he had a few – they wrote the GOOD papers. Classes were allowed cheat-sheets with needed equations during tests. That was NOT permissable in earlier decades. The older profs just resigned themselves to the reality of today, and lowered their expectations.

          So don’t try telling me how much better educated today’s students are. You have no clue.

          • Josh Stetson

            So memorization equates to intelligence in your eyes, every college student went straight into differential equations in the 1950s, the percentage of students in pursuit of higher education is falling and the literacy rate is following suit. If any of your claims are true it has nothing to do with the teaching methods of a program less than a decade old. I’d point my finger at a pop culture take over before accusing early elementary education curriculum.

          • jtom

            Why do you think you have the right to paraphrase my words to suit your agenda? You must learn basics before you can begin any type critical thinking. You had to learn hundreds of words before sentence structure, reading or writing. How did you learn those words? You learned sentence structure before going to school. How? You memorized simple rules and structures with no ‘logical’ understanding of the rules of grammar.

            Why the h do you think math is any different? You know the basics to understand the logic.

            Next, you must be in high school if you think teaching methods have only changed in the last ten years. Rote memorization of basic facts, which served Man well for several thousand years, went out of style in the 1950s. We have endured a new teaching methodology at least once every decade since, and the situation is only getting worse. Open your eyes and look at reality.

          • jtom

            Went out of style in the 1960s.

          • Josh Stetson

            What standardized test are you referring to when you say that scores have declined since the 1950s (or 60s?)?

            Paraphrasing doesn’t mean I manipulated anything you said. I believe you meant I took your words out of context. Your failure to create a sensible argument or show critical thinking skills proves that either your education was lacking or that your mental facilities are deteriorating.

            “And you are delusional if you think today’s graduates are better educated than those in the 1950s. Our first math course in college was differential equations, not remedial mathematics.”

            You realize that many high school seniors (and some juniors) today are already studying calculus (differential equations)? There were about 30-40 of us in my graduating class of 265. It’s amazing that your entire generation took college calculus yet can’t comprehend the intricacies of a simple number line. These kids already know subtraction. This problem wasn’t given to kindergartners who are learning to count.

            (P.S. After 10 seconds on google, I found that Kentucky was the first state to adopt common core standards in 2010. 4 years is less than a decade ago, right?)

          • jtom

            I meant paraphrasing, as in, “so memorization equates to intelligence in your eyes.” I never made that comment in any context. But you’re too uneducated to realize that teaching methods have been changing every few years for decades, not just four years ago. Your reading comprehension is really cr@p.

            Simple number lines were a waste of time after kindergarten, and long before subtraction was taught. Only the least capable students drew number lines to add or subtract. I guess that’s why you’re so in favor of using them.

            Google math testing US 1950-2000 and restrict your search to .edu. You will find the research showing the continuous decline. I assume you know how to use Google? Eh, maybe not, but then you wouldn’t understand a peer-reviewed research paper, either.

          • Josh Stetson

            You’re right that I paraphrased your words. You did, however, use equation cheat sheets as evidence of educational decline.
            I feel we’re getting away from the source of our discussion, which should be this article.

            Where in this problem does it ask the student to DRAW a number line? This isn’t a lesson in subtraction or number lines, although it requires comprehension of both to solve. It’s a critical thinking question.

            Glenn Beck and most of the commenters here are regarding this problem as impossible for a “normal thinking” human being to understand. That’s the part that is killing me. This specific problem shouldn’t be causing outrage. The student whose parent wrote this letter is autistic and is probably a calculating machine with little in the way of critical thinking skills. Without critical thinking skills, math skills are useless.

  • John

    This makes perfect sense. I’ve seen the shoddy construction engineers do and their awful building codes. Their not understanding simple subtraction is not surprising.

  • Deacon Davis

    Common core is nothing but a tool to continue the dumbing down of Americans to be good little socialist drones.
    Parents stand up and save your children from a future where they are unfit to compete in the world market.

  • CR

    This type of math problem has been around since I was in school in the 70’s. It’s a simple number line. Remember those? They were pasted on the wall in every elementary school room across America, and still are. If you look at the number line, you will see that “Jack” counted backwards by 20 (127 to 107) and then by 10’s (107,97,87…etc) when he was supposed to count backwards by 1’s to get from 127 to 121. It’s a simple subtraction error. Don’t you all feel like idiots now? If you don’t, then you should.

    • Josh Stetson

      Jack wasn’t even dumb enough to make the errors you’re describing which were made by the frustrated parent…. who happens to be an electronics engineer.

  • Kyle Dobbs

    I want these Common Core idiots to come to work with real people and put their BS to use and solve true math problems using their methods.

  • Eli

    I’d just like to point out that the assignment shown above does not ask for the equation to be solved or tell the student to *use* the method that the hypothetical student used. It says the answer the hypothetical student gave (121) was wrong, and gives a suggestive visual to show how he got that answer. The assignment is to figure out what the hypothetical student did wrong – it is *not* saying that the real life student answered a problem wrong, and the parent here appears to have misunderstood the assignment, thinking that the process illustrated was being instructed. The instructions say to find the mistake, and identify how to correct it.

    The mistake of the assignment appears to be in having an unclear description, but it is not telling children to do what is shown.

  • Kuke’s

    Somebody with a doctorate in math and a kindergarten education in common sense?

  • Richard Tanner

    Common Core is not just about “Education”. It is also very much about government control of many things. Anyone who wants Common Core has no idea what it is all about. It is all about federal government control.

  • Liz Muirhead

    So, this woman understands math but couldn’t see this was a simple lesson in teaching mental math through counting back? 400-300 + 20-10 + 7-6. And the kid in the question forgot to count back the tens place. See, that took me 5 seconds too, and I didn’t even have to write down a math problem. I was able to do it all in my head – the very skill the lesson this is based on is trying to teach.

    And now she’s modeled for her child that when you don’t understand the lesson, you should get snarky with the teacher instead of asking for help. Great job, lady.

    • Ms.Teach

      You know what? I looked above and came to the same conclusion as the “frustrated parent” immediately, before actually taking a close look at the problem. To me, logic said, “duh, it takes a second to do that.” But then I actually looked at the problem, and that took just a second to realize he skipped the tens place too. I was all fired up to get pissed off about this, and BLAM, common sense took a hold of me and I looked a second time. Your comment is great. That was my whole point. :p 🙂

  • Richard Tanner

    Oklahoma legislators voted overwhelmingly to not have Common Core as part of our States education system. The Feds decided to punish us by cutting off some educational Federal funding. They really care about our kids, huh.

  • I’m sure this has been pointed out – but does anyone find it odd that this post is about an angry mom writing a message on a Common Core example, when that same example appeared in Huffington Post in March 2014 from a frustrated father? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/28/viral-common-core-homework_n_5049829.html

    I’m no teacher and certainly no Common Core enthusiast, but if I had children of an age to be participating in a school focused on Common Core, I’d be seriously considering home schooling.

    • Allyson Newton

      A good point, Mary. If people are so upset about CC, then they have the freedom to homeschool their children. However, those homeschooled children will also have to pass state standard exams, which means that they will be required to answer questions that force them to work problems the same way that public school children answer them – using CC techniques.

  • Enthusiast

    Just because the parent has a BS doesn’t mean they understand how to teach children math. This lesson teaches you how to properly do subtraction in your head. I had to discover this myself. Most high school graduates couldn’t count you change back if they worked at a register because they have no clue what the math they’re doing on paper actually is. They understand rules and procedures, but not what they are doing.

    Rail against government mandates. Rail against the Department of Education. You’re a fool if you complain about your children being taught to understand math better, because this is the right way to do this problem in your head.

    • Phil

      @disqus_BBuFs2hhND:disqus Amen brother or sister, amen.

  • John Hicks

    Old news.

    Saw a link to this article on my Facebook feed just now and thought, “that letter looks oddly familiar”. Turns out, I DID read an article about this letter…FIVE MONTHS AGO.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/24/youve-just-got-to-see-what-a-frustrated-parent-wrote-on-their-childs-common-core-math-assignment/

    Just saying, that’s all. 🙂

  • slumped

    Her degree must be from a JC.

  • Jerry Wetzel

    As with every single thing introduced by Obama and his administration, Common Core is a failure. It’s main agenda is the taking over of the education system by the government. As anyone with a smidgeon of a brain knows, anything that the government enters into becomes bloated and bogged down with outlandish rules and regulations. When the government enters into any thing, the cost sky rockets and the results bottom out. Tell the government to remove its hands off of the education system.

    • Mikey

      No, its main purpose is equal rights! Now the white kids and asians can do just as poorly as blacks and illegal alien brats! YaY! We all be bein’ equal!

    • Jeff Johnson

      Actually, in many cases, government run programs are significantly cheaper to administer, largely because there’s no multi billion dollar advertising budget, no CEO taking in tens of millions in salary and private jets, and no billions spent on bribing politicians. Medicare is an excellent example, as it costs about 2-3% to administer, vs. 25-30% for private insurance.

      • bee

        I concur with what you say here, for the most part, except what most people don’t realize is that the cost of implementing Common Core, can be prohibitive.

    • bee

      Race to the Top, like No Child Left Behind, have been failures. Common Core, is a ridiculous, destructive program. It really wasn’t developed, for the most part, by real educators, people who have actually been in the trenches. The powers that be, politicians, billionaires, try to pretend it’s just “standards,” but it really is the imposition of a one size fits all, program that makes the schools purchase and apply, text books, scripted lessons, and tests from companies like Pearson. Common Core also kills love of learning, teaching, and doesn’t speak to or help special education students. I’ve also heard that in the language arts, the focus is on reading 90% nonfiction. If that’s true, it’s downright criminal.

  • Kara

    I LOVE THIS OMFG AWESOME MOM

  • Ferrish Thefish

    Jack not subtracting “1” from the tens place is just a symptom. The real issue is a subtraction method so needlessly complex that long-distance correspondence and peer review are required to identify simple errors.

  • Antoinette C. Hooks

    my son is in 5th grade and neither my husband nor I (both college graduates and licensed teachers at one time or another) can help with his homework. i have had to send him to school several times with unfinished homework and a note stating that we could not help him with his assignment because we ourselves didn’t understand it. Common Core is an awful adaptation to mathematics and should be banned from our schools

  • hcarol

    This mom is brilliant makes sense. and her letter is 100% correct. Common Core BS is stupid down with it, and whoever thought it up

  • Jim B

    OK now try to do that subtraction in your head without paper. I’m 55 and the number line is not dissimilar to a addition and subtraction technique my father taught me which he learned in the 1920’s. Essentially if you need to add/subtract two complex numbers in your head it becomes trivial if you break the numbers down into thousands, hundreds, tens and units. No need to “carry the one.” so the above is 427-300 =127, 127-10=117, 117-6=111

    • Sifo-Dyas

      Good point, but I think that’s a secondary step to learning how to do the actual subtraction. Once you have the foundations, then you move on to a more “advanced” method.

  • Matt

    I think we have to understand, for the agumentative sake, why exactly we send kids to school. The answer has always been, to prepare them for the real world. Now, I had many classmates growing up who would challenge how a certain class, like mathematics, was helping to prepare us for the future, and they would spout their arguments. Even then, I could at least say that people who were pursuing careers that involved physics and science-related careers would find them helpful. However, the Common Core does no such thing – it is only a time waster of a problem that is solved much easier. You may say it is Critical Thinking, but critical thinking has a key word: critical; as in a thought to solve a problem in a situation you would have to apply in everyday life. Even in the most life-threatening situations, you would naturally react with the simplest way to accomplish the goal – not a long drawn-out alternative. Until someone can prove how, in any way, shape, or form, Common Core relates to a real-world scenario that can not be solved by standard math, then I consider it pure garbage, and a waste of money spent on education. Furthermore, I would find parents (and children) to be in the right if they protested this same thought, and pulled all children out of school until they either proved why Common Core is beneficial, or pulled it from the educational programs. I am not saying Common Core is bad; I only want proof that it is beneficial, and to date, I have found zero evidence.

  • Allyson Newton

    Better question.
    If this mom is so upset by CC, why is she blaming the teacher? Why doesn’t she write letters to her legislators, lobby, or go through due process to change the situation, instead of throwing a little hissyfit on her son’s homework?

    • Sifo-Dyas

      How do you know she hasn’t? The reality is that the government is so slow, cumbersome, and beset by lobbyists that a fraction of the populace who works up the gumption to actually show that they care will end up passed over for other more pressing interests. The point that the teacher does not have the power to affect change is well-taken, though.

      • Allyson Newton

        You are right. I don’t know if she has or not.

        Nevertheless, it’s not fair to the teacher to be attacked by this mother, when he or she is just following orders. CC is much bigger than teachers.

  • Megan

    The cc math is ridiculous! Just yesterday I was talking with another mom who is an accountant and even she cannot figure it out. Very frustrating!!

  • j-bear

    Common core has been in planning for more then 30 years! Teachers who herd of it then thought it was also ridiculous because it only focused on one of the ten aspects of math.

  • Tanya Korth

    I agree that common core is ridiculous, but think we ought to remember most of our children’s teachers hate it just as much as we do. They have to learn a whole new way to teach, we should be patient and kind, and work with our teachers.

    • Rose

      WHY! When the entire purpose is to UN-EDUCATE the children! And to make them UNEDUCABLE! WHY work WITH that destruction?

      • Tanya Korth

        Because kindness is a disappearing quality and everyone deserves it. I’m pretty sure my children’s teachers are not out to destroy my children. If we work with the teachers and have civil conversations and learn for ourselves what is lacking in the classroom and then take the responsibility to help and teach our children in our own homes, then we will not only build smart children, but we will teach them kindness and the power and strength that comes when you work with your community. If all we do is stand idly by and yell that they are dumb and are destroying education then true change can never happen. We need to be involved and take action and people are always more willing to help when they aren’t being yelled at or put down. That is why we should work with our teachers.

  • Barbara A Johnson Adkins

    I don’t know who this chick is, but I understand the Common Core approach, I understand how she did it, and I had the answer by doing it in my head before I even read the article. The writer of this article is a purveyor of rampant stupidity, trying to drag people down to a level that is unhealthy.

  • fixusanow

    So the answer is to force the highest denominator to learn at the pace of the lowest? Effectively, retarding the educational progress of the “best and brightest”, who progressives cherish as the answer to our problems…

  • Jennifer

    Everyone keeps talking about how much “time” it takes to do the problem. Common Core teaches the depths of math, not how to memorize a process in 0.2 seconds. I also have a degree in Electronics Engineering and I see the objective and I agree with it. Math has to be understood and not a memorization process. I’m thankful for Common Core 🙂

    • fixusanow

      You say that like previous generations didn’t understand the depths of math, and common core is the solution. You don’t need to look further than the device you are typing on to know that isn’t true. Time is relevant; classroom hours are limited. You must accept that some people comprehend math better than others and don’t need excessively drawn out and archaic methods. Teachers having to educate parents on the process is an even bigger drain of their already limited time with their students and their personal lives.

      • Jennifer

        Most “previous generations” do no understand the depths of math. I’ve had to tutor may peers in high school just to get them through to be able to graduate. Unfortunately, by then, I had to teach them in a way to quickly ace the test so I had to teach a process. “If you see this format, do this process”… I understand the depths of math since I had to take every math class offered at my college, but the majority of people have not had that exposure. This is the exact reason that I feel so many people are against it. It’s not because it’s less intelligent, it’s because the majority of people are less intelligent.

        • fixusanow

          What proof can you offer to defend your viewpoint, ‘Most “previous generations” do not understand the depths of math.’? Why is it necessary for everyone to have in depth understanding of math when most of what they learned will never be applied in the real world? Is it important to know the depths of how something works for it to be useful? How about your car, stove, or computer? It sounds like you are a smart woman, and as someone that understands something in depth would it not make sense that you would become a source of that knowledge…jading your perspective of the average due to the group you attract?

          • mamabear1966

            Your arguing with a libtard. Give it up, they are Nazi’s.

        • Rose

          That shows tremendous ignorance of the schoolwork still in evidence from the 1800’s, which is vastly superior to that of today’s college graduates, from students in elementary school.

    • mamabear1966

      And your a libtarded idiot. Nazi!

      • Jennifer

        Ok. That was a very mature comment. I think you just proved my point on the idiots of the world. 😉

  • momofboys

    The creators of common core are not educators. The creators of common core are also under the impression that parents have no choice on what, how, when and where their children are taught. As parents you can pull your child out of the public school system, enroll them in a private school that does not follow CC, use an online school or even homeschool. There are many options. If every parent that is upset about CC pulled their kid from public school, the teachers would be left with the kids that they complain about having to teach. Their test scores would bottom out and in the end, public schools would drop common core.

  • Neil Orr – Author

    Funny…Huff Post credits this to a Father by the name of Jeff Severt.

  • MMWWAA

    Pretty sure the mother made this comment more complicated that it really is. Plus she wrote some ridiculous numbers under each point. She managed to confuse herself, and then blames CC…

  • Justme

    Seems to be geared for failure!

  • Richard Wetmore

    Well I can now see why America is no longer producing enough people in technical fields if this is the way that math has been taught for the last 20 years or so. This method must assume that the children learning it are completely unable to comprehend simple math. This type of problem can be easily solved in ones head. Who ever though up using a number line must have been a trying to figure out how to teach an extremely slow student who was unable to grasp simple math and needed an illustration to help them understand. This method would frustrate the majority of students and would turn them away from the technical fields in which America really needs people. Right now we make al sorts of exemptions to immigration laws in order to get enough people who are skilled in the technical fields. Get rid of this garbage and focus are education system on math and sciences, because that is where the jobs are and will be in the future
    .

    • CPSmurf

      “Get rid of this garbage and focus are education system on math and sciences”

      Are eduction? Maybe you should have focused on English…

      • Richard Wetmore

        I will freely admit that English was one of my worst subjects in school and only took the minimum amount to graduate, but the mistake you pointed out is case of not proofreading what I typed what I actually meant was our Education system.

        • mamabear1966

          He’s just being a dick.

      • mamabear1966

        Dick!

        • CPSmurf

          Penis!

          • mamabear1966

            Whichever, your one and the same!

          • CPSmurf

            Your one and the same what?

          • bee

            you are = you’re

          • mamabear1966

            You understood my answer, didn’t you? So shut the heck up and quit being a grammar troll!

      • Rose

        Education now focuses on WHOLE WORDS, remember? NOT on the demeaning aspects of tedious SPELLING lessons!

        • CPSmurf

          I’ll have to tell that to my grandson. I’ll tell him that his weekly spelling tests isn’t the focus of education anymore…

          However, this was NOT a spelling error but a grammar error.

    • Rose

      When this is taught instead of basics, it is easy to see why American Educational results are plunging, since 1968-1969.

  • Jason Kelling

    The logic is quite simple. On the far right of the number line, you have the number 427. Immediately to the left of the number 427 is 327. 427 – 327 = 100. At the far left of the number line, you have the number 121. The square root of 121 is, of course, 11. 100 + 11 = 111. Any questions?

    • mamabear1966

      STFU you libtarded idiot!

      • Guest

        FEMA and the UN are going to take away your guns, Mama. How do you feel about that? As helpless as you feel when you are asked to solve a simple math problem?

        • mamabear1966

          Want to bet on that, douche bag? Guess they won’t be trying to take yours since your are a libtard who would rather have the government take care of you and tell you what to do.

        • mamabear1966

          Want to bet on that, douche-bag? Guess they won’t be trying to take yours since your are a libtard who would rather have the government take care of you and tell you what to do.

    • Rose

      TALK THAT to an 8 yr old. That is a silly game, best saved for after the WORK is done.

  • keithanthony

    They teach you not how to understand maths they teach you ignorance so that you will be a compliant slave for the social elite of the NWO!.

  • Jason Kelling

    The logic is quite simple. On the far right of the number line, you have the number 427. Immediately to the left of the number 427 is 327. 427 – 327 = 100. At the far left of the number line, you have the number 121. The square root of 121 is, of course, 11. 100 + 11 = 111. Any questions?

    • Rose

      GET THE BASICS DOWN BEFORE GAMES!
      The focus of Common Core is MUDDLING BRAINS.

  • Jo Torrey

    Who thought it up – somebody with not enough to do!!!!! The woodshed sounds like a good idea!

  • Longshanks

    David Coleman, author of the common core standards and now president of
    the College Board, summarizes the Core in three words: fluency,
    application, and understanding. Google him and read his wikipedia pages. Still think common core is about helping anyone other than test and text publishers?

  • Guest

    I strongly maintain that the vast majority of respondents in this thread could greatl

  • Guest

    I strongly maintain that the vast majority of respondents in this thread could greatly benefit from CC Language Arts.

  • Bill Taylor

    they are attempting to explain we use base TEN math without doing any real explanation….we have only 10 numbers in base TEN zero through 9…..when you need a new number you have 1 group of ten in the next column to the left and zero units or TEN…eleven is one unit of ten plus one unit…we already know how to subtract in base 10…….if the number on top is bigger you borrow one from the next column left(subtracting that one from it) and then subtract the bottom number from the now larger top number……..they are simply adding many steps, doing it backwards and cant explain why……..this teaching method is beyond STUPID……….memorize the math tables is the ONLY way to learn and use math….and there are only TEN numbers you have to learn how to subtract and add…..just 10 number total.

    • Jack

      HUH????????

  • Jason Kelling

    Oh my goodness, it is simply a number line. You are supposed to count backwards from the minuend (427) by the amount of the subtrahend (316) to arrive at the difference (111). I cannot believe that anyone is even debating this–especially electrical engineers.

    • mamabear1966

      You’re a libtard, aren’t you? And I’m sure that youu think that weshoulld give amnesty to all the illegals who are here as well, right? RETARD!

      • Guest

        They are not illegal immigrants. They are undocumented workers. I also believe that the government should seize all firearms and place all conservatives in FEMA work camps. However, that has very little to do with the fact that the above subtraction problem simply requests that the student extends the number line to arrive at the answer by following a simple algorithm that has already been demonstrated to the number 121.

        • mamabear1966

          If they are here without documentation, then they are here ILLEGALLY! I believe that all libtards like yourself should all be rounded up and sent to Mexico, since you love the wetbacks so much. I don’t see any libtards opening their houses and bank accounts for the illegals. I just see you telling the rest of us that WE should. You are an idiot. You will live a short life on obummercare. I’m so glad!

        • mamabear1966

          Same reply as above: If they are here without documentation, then they are here ILLEGALLY! I believe that all libtards like yourself should all be rounded up and sent to Mexico, since you love the wetbacks so much. I don’t see any libtards opening their houses and bank accounts for the illegals. I just see you telling the rest of us that WE should. You are an idiot. You will live a short life on obummercare. I’m so glad!

        • mamabear1966

          Not that you will comprehend, since you’re a libtard, but here is the definition of undocumented: not having the official documents that are needed to enter, live in, or work in a country legally.

  • mamabear1966

    Commie Core, invented by Nazi’s, instilled by Nazi’s in public schools, in order to indoctrinate our children. Just say NO to commie core!

  • ken

    He forgot to sutract the 10 before six 1’s . On an open number line you subtract by 100s then 10s then 1s so he would go back 100 100 100 10 1 1 1 1 1 1 total of 316. I dont know why she wrote those other numbers out, probably overthinking it, but anyway I understand his very simple math and i smoke weed everyday lol

  • kallie925

    I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, but children need to have a good foundation in basic math skills before jumping to complicated math charts and graphs and equations. How will you teach a child to multiply and divide if they still do not have the basic addition and subtraction down? This is my fight. How will a child know how to spell if they are only taught word games, and given multiple choice tests instead of the basic “teach them to spell the word and the meaning of that word” first. More parents will pull their children from the school system and use alternate methods of education because of this.

  • Ashley Settle

    I really don’t think this is a letter written by a parent….it looks like a problem I would have seen in my college courses when studying how to teach math to students. You can’t believe everything you see or hear on the internet. I believe the common core gives students different options on how to work out a certain problem. Plus if I was his teacher I would look for different strategies to help him. So fyi, teachers are allowed to show students how to work a problem out in different ways, it is called differentiated instruction.

    – Future teacher

    • Guest

      Obviously, your “college” did not inform you of when to use the subjunctive mood.

  • Cheryl Kovalewski

    I agree. My son has learning disabilities. He can do straight forward math and equations, in his head, rather well. When he was in first grade a teacher gave him a calculator to play with. From that day forward my son could figure out the square root of anything in his head in less than 5 seconds.He loved math, it made sense to him. Then came the complex and ridiculousness. Learning 6 different ways to add and subtract,Graphs and charts, none of which made any sense to a first grader. It confused the heck out of him,and me. I was told 98% of the class failed math that year. There is absolutely NO reason for the complex crap, when a problem can be solved using the traditional method of adding and subtracting. Children need to have a strong math basis and they do NOT get that, with these sort of problems. It only confuses them.

  • AngryMom

    What I want to know is, why change something that already works for many years to this now? I have dyslexia and I struggle with math already, this just complicates it further. I don’t really get it at all. If it works, then why are so many kids struggling to figure it out?

  • Dale Hubbard

    You must have done very, very poorly in those classes if you fail to understand simple transitive properties of addition and subtraction.

  • Dale Hubbard

    This mom must have done very poorly in her advanced math classes to not understand simple associative and commutative properties. Makes a person wonder how she was able to handle differentials, as she claims to know. This is manufactured to make dumb people feel as though this simple math is so difficult that you would need to be a super mathematician to figure it out. That why they feel less dumb. The real problem here is how bad at math we are as a country because we are stuck in the stone ages for teaching techniques. By all means, let’s just stick our heads back in the sand and continue to fail so parents who are bad at math feel better.

  • Joe Smith

    I think this person was really over-thinking the question. The answer is simple, Jack missed counting the “tens” spot. He did the hundreds correct and the ones correct, but missed the tens. Having those degrees are great, but they really don’t compute to elementary. Just because he can do the math easily, doesn’t mean his child can. The math skills of the parent are there, but the parent really needs to work on their reading comprehension.

    • Rose

      YOU missed the point.
      Common Core is DESIGNED to CONFUSE and UN-EDUCATE and leave the children so muddled they stop trying to figure it out.

      EDUCATION is the SECRET to NEVER BEING A SLAVE.
      ANYTHING DIMS can do to PREVENT EDUCATION while filling the heads with Marxist DISSEMBLING about what it takes to have a successful, and financially independent life and healthy family – will help promote THEIR DICTATORSHIP and the rest of the nation living and mostly DYING in 3rd world abject poverty and hopelessness.

      • Gary Warren

        You are the problem Rose. As long as kids have adults telling them common core is to hard , they will remain at the level they are.

  • Drew Simmonz

    and lets not get ahead of ourselves assuming high school dropouts are more LIKELY to be dependents. everyone knows high school dropouts find better jobs and work less hours, get more pay, have better medical coverage, and are better time/money managers…

  • Rose

    SO GLAD THE MOM SAVED A COPY BEFORE TURNING IT IN!
    God bless the REAL AMERICA, and PLEASE SAVE US from these ENEMIES of God, Country, and of HUMAN BEINGS. Forgive us for the suicidal tolerance of EVIL, and giving this kind of EVIL the space to BREATHE, to the detriment of ALL HUMANITY. Help us be what You created us to be, and to rise up and fight off the GARBAGE. In Jesus’ Name, and by the Power of His Blood.

  • Darren Hardin

    Common core makes sense, this person is ridiculous and is not looking at the big picture. Sure anyone can just pull out a piece of paper and do the subtraction problem, especially if no carrying is involved. What common core teaches, is basically what I taught myself as I got into college and enabled me to be able to get really good grades in all my math classes in college. I have no idea why they are using the number bar, but the Common core is pretty basic and it teaches an understanding of how to do math in your head rather than having to write things down on a piece of paper in order to get an answer. How many teenagers or young adults these days can’t even make simple change at a register or even know if they are getting the correct change back? That is what Common Core teaches. Say you have something that costs 2.52 and you have 5 bucks, how much change will you have. With basic math are you going to get a piece of paper and start carrying numbers to figure the problem? No your going to probably not even know, but what Common Core teaches is going to the next easy number to add or subtract. Or it takes 8 cents to get to 2.60, 40 cents to get to 3, 2 bucks to get to 5, therefore quickly, in your head you know you should get 2.48 back. Probably a horrible example, but with big numbers it works and makes math a simple thing to do in your head rather than just say “I don’t know” or having to pull out a piece of paper to do the math. Working with tons of engineers myself, this is a typical response of an Engineer that (Knows everything, their way is best, there is no other way, everyone else in the world is wrong, I’m the smartest person in the world) Look, I can do the answer in 5 seconds. Look at the big picture of what it teaches.

    And it’s certainly not political, good lord, does everything have to turn political.

    • Darren Hardin

      I can’t believe some of the crazy responses I have seen on this site, it’s a simpler way of doing math people, not some political agenda or government school problem.

    • SineWaveII

      You forget that you learned it in COLLEGE as an ADULT. With years of math experience behind you. These are small children who are learning basic math for the first time. Trying to teach basic math skills AND critical thinking at the SAME TIME is INSANE. Things that work in college will NOT work in elementary school. Children are not just little adults.

      • Darren Hardin

        I taught myself in late high school and early college, never learned from anyone. I came up with my own way of doing math so I could do it quicker in my head and not have to have a piece of paper and pencil to figure complex problems quickly. It’s not that hard to understand. I don’t think the bar or line method is the greatest way to teach it but it’s really not that hard once the concept is understood. I have a 9 year old that learned the old way in school in 1st in 2nd grade. He is now in 3rd grade and starting to learn this method. He didn’t understand at first either but once I was able to sit down with him and explain it, help him with the problems, he gets it now, and can do math quickly in his head. Don’t hold your children back, they can do whatever they want and learn more than you could believe with a little effort and determination. Instead of complaining and saying they can’t, learn yourself and help them learn. You will be amazed at what they can pick up and do. Accepting a “I Can’t do it attitude” will only hurt them in the long run. My 9 year old is so far ahead of me when I was his age. It’s progress, the things we have today are from progress, new learning methods, and applying those new methodologies to come up with new technologies. But hey, to quote Caddyshack, “The world needs ditch diggers too!”

    • Gary Warren

      I agree, seriously cant believe this mother claims she has math skills , its very clear this kid only decremented 306 intead of 316, this means the child forgot to decrement 10 and his solution fell short of the correct answer. Maybe this mother needs to go back to school , its not rocket science.

  • MR. BOBO

    Today, when you send your kids to government school, you turn your children over to pedophiles, deviants, and other abusers, who don’t have a care in the world about their education. Your child is now on the menu.
    Maybe in the past teachers cared. But today, teachers and other academic administrators are self-indulgent Leftists who see the school as their perverted personal playground. Fact.

  • Josh Stetson

    Bunch of butt hurt old farts thinking number lines are new and representative of common core deficiencies. This whole thread is nothing but wasted breath.

  • Jacob Renfrow

    Ok, at the risk of being called an idiot, the question isn’t asking the child to use the number line to solve, only to use critical thinking and problem solving skills to find where “Jack” made a mistake. Using this as an example is a great way to get children to think “outside the box” and find solutions to mistakes.

    Hell, if I was the teacher, I would accept, “Jack used a number line instead of just subtracting” for an answer to this.

  • dawnamber

    Okay, for those who think the Common Core works — what IS the answer to the problem? I think I see the error, but still don’t know how to get to the answer even if I change the number line.

  • Jesse

    127 minus 10 isn’t 107. Pretty easy question.

  • Red_State_Eddie

    I’m glad they’re using math class to teach children how to write proper English.
    I wonder what they’re doing in English class – solving math problems??

  • Guest

    The ‘Conservative’ Common Core (The CCC Or ‘Corporate Class Consciousness’)

    1. War is peace.
    2. Freedom is slavery.
    3. Ignorance is strength.
    4. Intolerance is tolerance.
    5. Hypocrisy is authenticity.
    6. Anti-science is science.
    7. Poverty is wealth.

    Amen.

  • Guest

    Sometimes the answer is 121. Sometimes the answer is 111. Sometimes the answer is 107. Sometimes any answer is correct. Sometimes there is no answer. The most important question is which answer is the most politically expedient and at which times, if any, is this the case?

  • Josh

    Too many people rely upon “memes” to inform them of what’s going on. Common Core teaches critical thinking. The parent in this meme should know what a number line is and how to use it, otherwise her degree isn’t worth much. Too bad she can’t channel her frustration into working with the teacher to help the student (her child, I assume) understand and succeed in math. Besides, who says that this kind of problem is even in the “Common Core” curriculum? I remember using number lines and word problems problems 30 years ago.

  • Tony

    A number line is a good thing for helping students “see” a range of numbers. It is plain stupid to use for any arithmetical calculation. The Common Core Crap goes along with all the other high falutin’ bad ideas that have come from the educational establishment since John Dewey: set theory for kiddos, basal readers, no grammar, ditch the Latin, ditch history …. The commenter below does not understand how much higher thinking can and does go on when kids learn to acquire a number sense through the old and successful methods. There’s a reason why nobody over 60 has any trouble leaving a 15 percent tip, while half of a high school class right now does not even know what 15 percent means.

  • Neil08

    This math problem isn’t Common Core at all. Admittedly it might be confusing for anyone who doesn’t understand the principles, and Common Core might be under attack and unpopular among right-wing blogs. But that’s no reason to declare any confusing teaching method must therefore be a result of Common Core.

    There are many problems with Common Core. But it won’t be fixed by people who don’t know what it is and have only been told to fear it by Fox “News” or right-wing hate radio. It’s better to study what Common Core is (and isn’t) and fight it based on facts, not empty fear-mongering bullet points… if you want to win the argument, that is.

    In other words, do some research. Educate yourselves…

    • bee

      There are plenty of left-wing people and centrists who don’t like it either, and for good reason.

    • C J

      I don’t see any political message in the mother’s response, nor did she declare herself to be right or left-wing. I don’t see where Fox News was quoted or referenced in the mother’s response either.

    • MyronJPoltroonian

      Careful where you “Blah, blah”, or you’ll step in the “Bleep, bleep.”

  • Neil08
  • Kathleen Taylor

    The private online schools are growing in leaps and bounds.

  • Dominique Storni

    WTF? No wonder our education system is going down the crapper!!!

  • Jeff

    This isn’t trying to complicate simple math, it is trying to teach students how to recognize mathematical errors and correct the problem. It is attempting to show students the CONCEPT of subtraction, not the procedure of how to find a difference. The people pushing CC politically don’t know anything about education and that’s why it isn’t coming off smoothly, BUT most of you also know nothing about education and therefore have no valid arguments.

  • Gary Warren

    All I can say is if you took all these maths including differential equations and could not tell where they went wrong on this number line , you did not do very well in your maths. Its easy to see the smaller increments in their number line is wrong , why is it so wrong to teach our children increments and problem solving, especially something as easy as this?

  • Gary Warren

    Is this mother serious, she took all these maths(I did too) and can not tell that the child went wrong in their smaller increments,they only deducted 6 instead of 11? Why is it so wrong to teach problem solving techniques as easy as this?

    • Nimrod0

      No, they deducted 70 instead of 16, dummy. Apparently your “maths” are worse than Jack’s.

  • KDS

    NEWS FLASH to everyone who wants to talk about what they did in school and the old days. THE OLD WAY OF TEACHING MATH DID NOT WORK for the majority of students EVER! So why would you want to go back there? Stop confusing the standards with material that a publisher wrote. The STANDARDS are GOOD. The IMPLEMENTATION of them is BAD.

  • Navybuckeye

    <======== This is who wrote the Common Core math curriculum.

  • varnford

    This is NOT math. It is arithmetic. For this particular problem you
    only have to look at it and see the answer. There is no analysis
    involved with this problem. A more difficult subtraction problem should have been
    used as an example not one where each number is merely one higher than the other. Use, say, 427 – 369 = ? and use BOTH methods to arrive at the answer. This way the student can see the way each method works and they can choose the one that is easiest for them. How does common core teach other arithmetic like multiplication, division and addition?

    • varnford

      But, wait! When I said that you merely have to look at the problem to see the answer, I was actually mentally using the OLD method of subtraction and not the method that uses these lines. Maybe the newer line method is not all that good after all.

      • Gary Warren

        That would not have taught the child to count by increments and what this problem was teaching.

    • Gary Warren

      Arithmetic is a math. This is an analysis problem and asks what the child did wrong in his calculations. It is simple to see that the child fell short of the answer by ten and therefore forgot to deduct 10. So there is your answer , ” the child forgot to deduct 10 on his number line.”

  • Gary Warren

    Seriously cant believe this mother claims she has math skills , its very clear this kid only decremented 306 intead of 316, this means the child forgot to decrement 10 and his solution fell short of the correct answer. Maybe this mother needs to go back to school , its not rocket science.

    • Toast

      lol it is the fact that they are being taught to think like morons. If you do this problem the way the mother did by stacking it, it literally takes a few seconds or less to get….counting lines might help in line counting…..

      • Gary Warren

        The child wasnt asked to do a subtraction problem so how do you get the answer to the problem doing the stacking method that you speak?

  • xIsle

    Its actually a simple problem.. Just a drawn out, complicated, visual subtraction problem. Why do we need something that seems so annoying? It helps people to understand how subtraction works and why it works. Its like showing that 2×3 is actually 2+2+2.. Just two’s added three times.. Is it important to know that? Not especially. Can you do it without knowing that? Sure. But does knowing that raise your own awareness of how and why the math works instead of just the answer? Undoubtedly. Instead of pitching an immature fit I feel it would’ve been much more effective to just take a deep breath and consider why the problem would be given or, if she couldn’t figure that out, then ask someone who knows why. At least it would’ve taught the kid that collaborative efforts are much more productive and rewarding then tempertantrums.

  • SinDelle Morte

    Teaching your child to obey the rules is one thing. Teaching them to blindly follow whatever they are told is something else. My kids are taught the consequences of choosing not to follow the rules. That’s right, I said CHOOSING. Because I am not raising robots. I am raising human beings. My children are 18, 13 and 8. They don’t drink, smoke, do drugs, have sex or even swear. They go to school, they have friends, they get good grades. They are respectful and considerate. They are responsible and well-adjusted. My oldest just spent her summer volunteering. No one had to make her. She wanted to. My kids are doing EXCELLENTLY. Do you know why? Because when you simply teach blind obedience, you eventually end up with reckless rebellion. When you teach consequences and choice, you end up with people smart enough to make the right decisions, rather than just robots who do what they are told.

  • Rilesz

    not for nothing, but just a cursory look at this and the mistakes was that he went from 127 to 107 (missing 117) when counting back 10.

    granted, I’m not a fan of this convoluted way of doing things…

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      • Toast

        no you didn’t!

  • Ratchell Richter

    Our kids have already beat Common Core: the oldest is 19 and in the USAF as ATC; the youngest is 11 with a 9th grade reading level and an 8th grade math level. We will be considering a grade hike or two…don’t want to do this too fast…because he is a Grade A nerd, he doesnt have many friends his age, but he sure can think and comprehend like he’s 20 LOL 😉
    COMMON CORE IS A COMMON SNORE (Willy, age 9)

  • Yvonne Mills

    This is what is so frustrating with me and my middle schooler. He has been taught this stuff as well as free thinking to arrive at estimated answers. He understands math concepts to an extent, he can go down many rabbit trails to try to problem solve. All of that is fine and dandy, but I’m telling ya what. As soon as I show him the formula or the old school procedure on how to solve the problem, it clicks for him. He’s like, “Thank you for showing me how to finally find the answers I’ve been looking for all my life!” The free thinking, etc. has helped his brain develop. But, it’s not the end all/be all of math. We shouldn’t force them to waist time re-inventing the wheel. Sheesh! Many will get frustrated and drop out in the process, having learned nothing at all. When they come out of this crap and join together from different schools who have taught different rabbit trails, the kids are A MESS. Free thinking only works for so long. When math gets more complicated, the formulas will give the exact answers needed to progress. What we have are middle schoolers who do not know how to divide, carry over, have remainders, convert improper fractions, or decimals. And those gaps go back to 2-3rd grade math. What a waste of time!

  • Chris Brock

    What next? No wrong answers? so if a child puts down 211 instead of 111, it’s ok, because no one wants to hurt the feelings of child because he incorrectly answered the question? We have already begun doing it with sports. Why are we creating a generation of children unable to solve problems or deal with controversy. We banned the pledge of allegiance because it offended someone. WHAT NEXT?

  • shane fearn

    I get it, it can arrive at the correct answer, in ALOT more steps, but if my kid comes to me trying to show me how much allowance i owe him using this, he will forfeit his allowance! INSANE! I do not want my kid drawing lines on every counter everywhere he buys something for the rest of his life. What a Joke

  • Nikolai B

    Common core math is designed to teach kids WHY math works the way it does in a base 10 system. If the above “parent” were actually an electronics engineer, they would know this. As electrical and computer systems involve math of different bases (base 2 for binary, and base 16 for hexadecimal are examples). The most important thing in the common core math is the method of WHY, not to simply get the right answer through memorized algorithms. Knowing algorithms is not the same as understanding mathematics.

    • Nancy

      You are so Boring!

  • Mark Durham

    i just wrote a note to my daughters 2nd grade teacher asking her if someone had lost there minds and the math p could be salved ding simple math so that is what we did and if she wants to spend all day finding the tens have at it absolutely the dumbest thing i have ever seen

    • Mark Durham

      lol sorry for typos doing,problems,

      • MyronJPoltroonian

        Thjat’s o.k., my fingers are also somewhat independently minded and occasionally “Do their own thing” as well.

  • nancyj1922

    I am a teacher and hit assignments every once in awhile that no one on our team even knows what to do….we aren’t educated to teach stupid…sorry. I just stick to teaching MATH! REAL math!

  • beancrisp

    FACT: Common Core = Hatred of children.

  • AVB2

    If I had to wait in line for a cashier to draw a number line, I’d either find another store or the store would be looking for another employee. This method would be fine for explaining how numbers work, but it is an inefficient way to do math and should not be taught as such. Jack’s error was using a number line to do math. However, the image does not say at what age or what grade Jack is being taught this.

  • Rukariouzu

    Sure, she got the general answer right for the subtraction portion that wasn’t even supposed to be part of the answer as a whole. The question was, what did the lil kid do wrong? All he did was overstep what he was supposed to take away. He jumped from 127 to 107. He went back too far. It isn’t that difficult to understand.

    Over-think a problem and you’ll just make a bigger one yourself. Most of the time things are a lot more simple than they appear.

    • Nimrod0

      No, dummy. He went back 20 once, then 10 five times, for a total of 6. I guess that’s the “6” part of 316, but the whole thing makes no sense. You got it wrong, dummy.

  • Heather Hunter

    I find it difficult to believe someone with an electrical engineering degree can’t figure out how to use counting to figure out a subtraction problem. This example is teaching kids that if they can’t figure out the answer using standard subtraction, they can “count up” to figure it out. Subtracting “100” three times, then subtracting 16 isn’t that challenging and is a totally acceptable alternate method to subtracting until they feel confident with larger numbers.

    Before anyone harps on me about this stance, I plan on unschooling my kids, because the public school system is broken in too many ways, but this math problem isn’t that hard to understand.

  • Chuck Coverly

    Dear Frustrated Parent,
    You are the reason why, when I my groceries ring up to $16.23 and I had the clerk $21.23, they try to give me back the $1.23 because I “gave them too much money”. These products of the old math education can’t do math in their heads. I tell the clerk to just ring in the amount and watch what happens. They stand there in amazement when the change says $5.00. I motion with my hands and say, “MAGIC!”. No, it’s not magic. It’s math. And everyone should be taught how to do it in their heads.

    Frustrated Parent, you are very happy just using an algorithm that involves simple rote learning, without ANY understanding of what is going on behind the scenes. You are not always going to have a pen/pencil and paper to work out your problems.

    Wouldn’t it be nice if we taught kids HOW to do the problems and what’s going on behind the scenes and give them a keen understanding of how our brains work out math problems? With any luck, your children will be better at doing math problems in their heads than you and your BS engineering degree.

    Sincerely,
    Someone Who Gets It

  • Rosie Jordan

    The irony in this is that this isn’t new.

    I remember when I was in 4th grade, our family moved and math similar to this was being taught up into 6th grade, and my step dad (a draftsman) went ballistic on my teachers because I had previously learned how to do it the ‘simplified’
    way and received good grades in that school system. I had a very hard
    time doing this and was starting to fail in math even though I had the
    correct answer.

    The overall idea (back then in the late 1960’s) is not so much to get the
    correct answer; it is to teach the mind of the student to problem solve and to get used to the idea of doing algebra! That was never explained to my parents
    or myself because teaching algebra was new back then in the middle
    school grades. It was explained to me by a teacher at a later date, around 12th grade,(I think) because I asked about it. I hope this helps.

  • This has nothing to do with CCSS, it is just a worksheet on Critical thinking skills and problem solving skills. If any of you could read, or decided to read the CCSS you would not find this worksheet anywhere in there.

  • Mia

    What exactly is wrong with this teaching example? Point out Jack’s mistake and then tell him what he did right so he can logically fix the problem himself. No parental hissy fit needed.

  • Dolores Dace

    Hold the phone. This example is way before Common Core. This insanity was in several math programs which came in 25 years ago. Common Core has eliminated superfluous items such as probability and statistics in lower elementary school in favor of more work understanding numbers and basic computation. Here are some sample questions from Common Core: http://sampleitems.smarterbalanced.org/itempreview/sbac/index.htm
    Also, memorization of basic math facts is as essential to math as learning that C can make the sound /k/ or /c/ is for reading. This is one of the deficits of the previous math curricula.

    • Robert Hayner

      Dolores and Matt and everyone else. Most of the kids now are just plain stupid. When I go to buy something, I purposely give the cashier (majority of them are high-school kids) a strange amount of money forcing them to thinking about the simple math when giving change, etc. I get so amused when they just look at the register and get stumped on how to enter the information into the register. Technology has made most of them stupid, in my opinion. I’m in my early Fourties and consider myself technologically sound. I have an MBA and a Mid-Level Manager. Let’s Keep It Simple (Stupid) is a fantastic business method. Today’s education entangles the problem-solving issues too elaborate, which makes out kids heavily rely on technology to solve problems. So what if Kids come out of college with these new and improved brains that can do this no nonsense problem solving skills. I wouldn’t hire 85+% of them because they have not mastered the 2 basic skills “Customer Service” and “Social Behavior” (how to interact with others including teamwork and getting along with various personalities) skills. Actually, I’m a Payroll Manager and CPA eligible (if I choose to pursue that license). The number one question I ask in all my interviews pertaining to payroll is to walk me through the payroll cycle from collecting time to payroll out a paycheck without using technology as a platform for their explanation. We can use this same approach for any industry or field of study. Very few, if any can even know where to begin, because they rely on technology to carry them through. In fact, most of the accounting degrees now preface on software for the training and instruction in accounting. If you don’t know how the mechanics of how the financial statements form manually, how can you troubleshoot a system when you don’t know what you are looking for. Now, this is not the only scenario and there is certainly a place for IT folks that know absolutely nothing about the business processes. I work with those folks also, they are called programmers. The bottom line, you get out what you put into your education and unfortunately, 70% of the kids graduating from H.S. do not get anything out of that stage of their education. So, a Common Core principle is actually useless because it is theory and the gap to the application is too great. Case in point, I was not able to understand an Access database class because the examples were from a text book and not from a real business problem. On the other hand, I was able to learn SQL Server (a more complex database application) because I was taking actual business problems within my work place and providing solutions getting an immediate success or failure accelerating my knowledge and understanding. Another element that isn’t even being considered and has nothing to do with intelligence what so ever, “Attitude”. What is the consequence of failing a class for lack of understanding versus getting fired risking your livelihood. I failed many classes, and took 15 years to obtain both my undergraduate and MBA, but never lost a job due to lack of understanding. There are so many more things to attribute to education than just what society says “this is the proper way a person should comprehend theory”. Thank God for people like Albert Einstein (for your traditional educators out there), more importantly all of those entrepreneurs out there that didn’t couldn’t understand what was being forced into their heads by our educational system. I can’t tell you how many people without a college degree, that have more education under their belts. I would rely on one of those folks more than most of my college professors or most of my high school teachers unless they were in the business world in their former life). Can you imagine if our educational system operated under the pretense of a business with real profit margins and throwing out the governmental budgets measure each teachers performance based on the quality if their products (their students). We would have a lot of unemployed teachers. How great would our government be if it were operated like a business. Our homeless population would be made up mostly of Democrats and Republicans. That is why I love math as my profession. To get the sum of 20 can be so many variations of numbers. If there was only 1 possible answer for a solution, someone would figure out a way to develop an alternate solution or determine the product is not profitable and sale another product. I think everyone get’s the idea. Reading all of these posts have been extremely entertaining and I see many people that invite conflict and drama that I’m glad I don’t work in your work place. 🙂 that was supposed to be a joke, lighten up everyone. Just remember, the real issue each of you has to face is how to sustain marketability without becoming complacent. Learning is inevitable, to stay competitive in the marketplace requires a lifetime of skill development because the skills you have 5, 10, 15, or 20 years are obsolete today. I can output the workload of about 60 people from the 1960’s based on technology. My technological skills are far more adequate than someone from the 1980’s, but my skills will be unmarketable 10 years from now unless I evolve. I hope I painted a much bigger picture. Survival of the fittest is inevitable, and of course, lets not forget our 2 other friends Luck and who you know!!!! LOL!! May you all find peace in this topic.

  • Matt

    Has anyone taken the GMAT? These are the types of methods used by GMAC. They take a simple problem and spin it up into something complicated – often completely outside the realm of real world situations. They know you can do the “simple” math, but they are testing whether or not you can reverse engineer the problem given a particular scenario and set of instructions. Think of it as a puzzle; it’s given to test problem solving skills, not simply simple math.

  • Glen Coco

    This is so easy, OK jacks method is bad that much is obvious (It is important that you realize that Jacks method is not the common core method) and he also got the wrong answer now I as a student am going to write a letter to Jack.

    Hi Jack seen you are having problems with this sum, why dont you try the common core math method of solving this, it is much easier.

    316+4 = 320
    320+7 = 327
    327+100 = 427

    4 + 7 + 100 = 111

    see how that works Jack?
    I just add the difference between the two numbers.

  • radrachel

    Fabulous!

  • Sarah Lee

    He forgot 117

  • Cristy

    I would like to how to take action on this topic. What discussion boards to join, to whom I should voice my opinion, I would like to know what this angry mom is doing and if something got resolved. In my sons school just the past week the teachers at my sons school were going for training, the books, workbooks, Internet sites have not been updated. Children with critical thinking difficulties are not being well educated when taking these exams of how to answer these questions since the homework does not match these exams or practices.

  • William Deppe Jr

    I learned using the simple math what I like to refer to as the straightforward method. Carrying for addition, borrowing for subtraction, etc. When my son gets to the point that he’s learning this material, I will help him as best I can according to the schools method as long as it makes sense. After that however, I am going to show him my method, how I learned the material and if it works easier

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  • JRocky

    thats why all of you are awful at math. and probably everything else. you need common core to truly understand math, not just regurgitate. the foundation starts here and seems overly complex. the payoff is eventual. yes, there is no instant gratification here you stupid derps.

  • Dave N

    I’m sorry but not every child currently in school is destined to be an engineer or computer programmer. They do need to learn basic math functions though and that does to a certain extent involve memorization etc. What I find hard to take is that even if they want to there parents can’t help or even check there homework because it’s almost impossible for them to understand what the schools are trying to teach. It may be old fashioned but the way I learned math has managed to get me through life just fine and I think there is a lot to be said for some of the old school ways.

  • Jennifer Evans Rengger

    Clearly she needed more training in flexible thinking, which is entirely the point of the curriculum. If you are an engineer and can’t imagine why you might need to be able to view a problem from different angles, I suggest that is the problem!

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  • Annie

    From an educators perspective, common core is great. It helps students understand WHY instead of simply teaching the common algorithm like the parent wrote. Yes, the algorithm is faster but it is useless unless the student understands. In this problem, we are subtracting 316. We start by subtracting the 300. That is shown by subtracting 100 three times. Then we subtract the 10. Lastly, subtract 6 by moving back 1 space 6 times.The error was that the student subtracted 6 tens instead of 6 ones. This method teaches place value and helps students understand what is really happening in the problem instead of memorizing steps. Don’t shut it down just because you don’t understand!

  • Kerchak

    Maybe because during the 60’s the majority of Democrats that were doing those things to the Blacks changed to the Republican party and those that were not doing those things changed to the Democratic party. After Johnson signed the equal rights bills the parties changed who was within them with the Southern Democrats becoming Republican. The Minorities were not welcome within the party after that happened. It has happened before and you just have to look at the history of who is in which party at which time period. The people within the Republican party that has been around since Reagan is totally different than who was part of it during Lincoln’s time.

  • Matt Todd

    You guys (and the author) are all assuming its a mom that wrote that. what if its a dad. all it says is Frustrated Parent. that can imply either mom or dad

  • 2broke4 her

    what I find funny is the story of the person changed!!! so the story is a hoax not the issue! http://www.newslinq.com/common-core-math-problem/

  • toadUso

    This assignment and all the other assignments used to express outrage at the “new way” of adding and subtracting is actually NOT a replacement of the old, fast way of solving a problem. It IS a way to develop number sense and understanding of what those operations mean. It is no different than the bundling of sticks into 100’s, 10’s and 1’s and literally borrowing from them to subtract. No one believed we were supposed to carry sticks around to subtract, but for some reason people believe this is a replacement because..look, a worksheet!. Again, it is NOT. Number lines have been used forever for the same reason – understanding and critical thinking about numbers. They have never been a replacement for conventional addition and subtraction and they are NOT for Common Core either.

  • K. Martinez

    Sounds like the parent missed the point…having good math sense is MORE important than memorizing a single algorithm for subtraction. The drawing just illustrates you can take partial differences, which in some cases is faster than the algorithm. That’s all. Try to understand it first, before you toss it all out.

  • K. Martinez

    a few ideas…because Republicans and Democrats, especially in the South, essentially switched roles following the Dixiecrat revolution of 1948. Prior to that time, it was southern Democrats who often passed Jim Crow legislation and so forth and Republicans who sometimes opposed such things. And…In the 19th century, Southern Democrats comprised whites in the South who believed in Jeffersonian democracy. In the 1850s they defended slavery in the United States, and promoted its expansion into the West against northern Free Soil opposition. The United States presidential election, 1860 formalized the split, and brought war. AfterReconstruction ended in the late 1870s they controlled all the Southern states and disenfranchised blacks (who were Republicans). The “Solid South” gave nearly all its electoral votes to Democrats in presidential elections. Republicans seldom were elected to office outside some Appalachian mountain districts. The names and values have shifted over time.

    • Gray

      Democrats are still pushing for, protecting and passing Jim Crow laws, the foundation laws of Jim Crow in fact, Jim Crow gun laws.

  • Leigh306

    It is really the system of the GOP that is creating the system of dependence, and that is because it is allowing the corporations to get tax breaks but not creating jobs here. The public schools are atrocious, and yes, there is a large sector of people who love those handouts and make a living of getting them. But send them to an employer and see if they will be hired. This is a nation of racism and division. It has created the weaknesses. Bring back the jobs. Lots of black people I know, older folks, had great jobs, bought homes, and now their children and grand children do not have those same opportunities. Where are they? Lots of young black men are in prison for stupid stuff they would not be doing if they only thought they had a chance in life. If you are in the social services, and got personal with any of your clients, you might know this.

  • Mike Bode

    This problem is actually extraordinarily simple if this BS in electronics engineering (? Wtf is that, did she mean electrical?) Had bothered to read the instructions and consider what was written. The number line has a mistake in it, find it. 6 jumps from 121 to 127, 3 from 127 to 427, equals 306. He forgot to jump 10 to 117, then jump down. Is it the best way? Maybe not, but it’s not difficult in any way.

  • Scott M. FotoPlex Levine

    I would definitely kneecap him in the parking lot.

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